Posted 2/22/2013 9:53 PM (#69754) Subject: Indian sidecar on a harley
Ok ..40s Indian passenger sidecar ,,has the knife and fork setup normal to indian ,,,I want to mount it to my 54 Harley ..does anyone here have or know if Indian mount's will fit on the Harley frame ?? or am I looking at fabricating a ball adapter to mate the car to my Harley ..I don't want to destroy the stock bit's ...any idea's ???
Posted 2/25/2013 8:39 AM (#69800 - in reply to #69754) Subject: Re: Indian sidecar on a harley
Might want to post up in the General or Tech sections for more exposure to other members viewing. FAQ sections are usually an archive for solved questions & answers of the past or for Tech articles with no replies, so not as many folks look in here.
From all I've heard the 'ball adapter' is a very dicey solution, prone to failure and not at all as secure as clevis mounts. Personally I wouldn't even consider ball & cup connections on any sidecar setup. There's just not that much securing the connection and metal fatigue, wear, loose bolts can end in disaster. With use of clevis connections even if the main bolt and nut loosen some, or a lot, there's still solid metal in the joint that isn't going anywhere. That is it might get sloppy and rattly and handle poorly but the tub isn't going to fall off! Using Nylock nuts on the securing bolts pretty much eliminates things coming loose too.
To my mind ball & cup joints are mis-applied for use on a hack. They are more suited to pressures bearing down on the joint rather than pressures possibly separating the joint to pull it apart.
Posted 2/25/2013 11:18 AM (#69811 - in reply to #69754) Subject: Re: Indian sidecar on a harley
Posts: 4833 Location: Boise, Idaho
The Heim joint and clevis and the large ball and collet mounts are some of the strongest sidecar connections there are. Alignment is easier than with clevis and eye, or eye to eye connections.
The only ball and collet mounts I know of that had problems were on the pre 1989 California Sidecars. The marble sized ball with the extruded steel "flower" collet was held together with a puny 5/16" SAE bolt. They were known to strip and fail. They upgraded to the 5/8" heim and clevis connectors in 1989.
Posted 2/25/2013 12:27 PM (#69820 - in reply to #69754) Subject: Re: Indian sidecar on a harley
No idea where you could get what you need. Of course if both were in our shop we would just make what ever is needed.
I did want to add to Lonnies comments on the ball mounts. Yes California mounts were an issue when they had the ball but also so were Motovations as they had an Aluminum collet that tended to turn to powder.
Posted 2/26/2013 2:20 AM (#69841 - in reply to #69754) Subject: Re: Indian sidecar on a harley
thanks for the direction..on my Harley the stock set-up is ball joint ,on the 34 commercial and the 65 passenger I had ..figgered if it worked for Harley for 50 years ..well why should I reengineer ??
Posted 2/26/2013 10:22 AM (#69844 - in reply to #69754) Subject: Re: Indian sidecar on a harley
I may have misunderstood and gotten terminology wrong. I took the original post to be referring to the type of connection that is a two piece cup that captures a ball, similar to grasping a soft ball in your hand. I consider that type of joint to be the weakest and least suitable for a sidecar, especially since the far stronger Clevis or Rod End connector are so commonly available.
Clevis or Rod End may have a static load rating of 7,000 - 10,000+ lbs each. The cup type can't come near to matching those load ratings. In order for a Rod end type to fail either the eye has to fracture in half, or the shank or through bolt shear in half. With a 5/8" shank and bolt in Grade 8 rating that's virtually impossible in this application.
The ball and cup is only as strong as the cup's metal to resist flaring out, and not much flare at that to separate joint. Or as strong as the small bolts that fasten the 2 cup halves together, 1/4" as compared to 5/8" for a rod end.
If it wasn't clear, that's what I was referring to.
Posted 2/26/2013 10:57 AM (#69845 - in reply to #69754) Subject: Re: Indian sidecar on a harley
Yes I understand ,my S/Cs are yard finds and old ,old stuff ...not the new custom stuff ....Indian has the same Idea ......and Harley has to be different..so making a frame mount for the Harley would be the way to go rather then trying to use Harley's design ..now to find a milling machine ..
Posted 2/27/2013 1:23 AM (#69865 - in reply to #69754) Subject: Re: Indian sidecar on a harley
If you search around the rod ends are really pretty cheap. I was looking for some on the net this morning. They range from maybe $8-$9 for the type without a movable center ball to about $25-$30 for real heavy, premium alloy, Teflon/Kevlar lined ball eye. McMaster Carr has good prices for some of the better ones. Just type - Threaded rod ends - into their search engine.