raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?
fastjoe
Posted 11/18/2015 12:23 AM (#86862)
Subject: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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I really like the car tire I have on the back of this Goldwing gl1500. (175R60 16) It changes the rear end ratio to about perfect for the Daytona 2+ car I have on it. However I could sure use a little more ground clearance in the back. This tire lowered the bike about 1" in the back. It's actually more like 1 1/4" or 1 and 1/2" because the car tire is flat not rounded like a bike tire. I'd like to get that 1 and 1/2 " back in case I get caught in a snow storm on the road or need to go over a speed bump someday. When the hack is fully loaded there is only about 3" of clearance under the center stand.

The handling is wonderful but a speed bump would probably leave me high centered with broken engine cases.
I'm going to get a hold of Racetech whose springs I have in the front and have them figure out how much preload I need on the springs based on where I am now to get the sag where it belongs on the front end. Right now I have about 2 1/2 inches of sag which is too much. On the back I guess the answer will be longer shocks. Does anyone know if this will cause issues with the Ujoint in the drive line?

Edited by fastjoe 11/18/2015 12:26 AM
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CCjon
Posted 11/18/2015 8:45 AM (#86863 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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Fastjoe, am very interested in the advice you get on increasing clearance. Have the same issue on my '94 Wing with Escort SC. Sits so low I have to run it up on a couple of 2x4's to get enough height to slide a drain pan under it to change the oil.

Did discover if the rear tire pressure gets low, you will sit lower and drag/hit more bumps.

Edited by CCjon 11/18/2015 8:46 AM
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AJ1200
Posted 11/18/2015 10:04 AM (#86864 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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just curious, how much air are you guys running in your rear shock
I am running a Goodyear Fuel max and keep the air in the rear shocks at 100 and I have progressive springs in the front with no air
I have to cross 2 rather large speed bumps at work everyday and have never hit bottom
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CCjon
Posted 11/18/2015 11:46 AM (#86865 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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Ace, I replaced the aging air shocks with the recommended Harley shocks. In hindsight, should have looked for longer shocks, but..... as the OP asked, will there be an issue with the driveshaft angle if you increase the height of the rear?

Edited by CCjon 11/18/2015 11:48 AM
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VLAD
Posted 11/18/2015 1:35 PM (#86866 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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Use 175R16 taxi tire. It is about 1" taller then OEM.
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CCjon
Posted 11/20/2015 9:00 AM (#86878 - in reply to #86866)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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VLAD - 11/18/2015 12:35 PM

Use 175R16 taxi tire. It is about 1" taller then OEM.


Where are you finding this tire today?

When I was needing a new tire last year, it was not available. So went with the Goodyear FuelMax.

Anybody have comments on the OP driveshaft angle question?
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VLAD
Posted 11/20/2015 9:15 AM (#86879 - in reply to #86878)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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https://www.universaltire.com/175r16-austone-taxi-black.html
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VLAD
Posted 11/20/2015 9:23 AM (#86880 - in reply to #86878)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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Make sure to check alignment of your rig after you change tire or install raked triple tree. You can guess how I (and some other) know this...
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VLAD
Posted 11/20/2015 1:59 PM (#86884 - in reply to #86878)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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CCjon - 11/20/2015 7:00 AM
Anybody have comments on the OP driveshaft angle question?


I have car tire on GL1500 for 6 years. And have no ill effect on drive shaft or u joint yet. Total now about 19-20k mi.
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CCjon
Posted 11/20/2015 3:46 PM (#86885 - in reply to #86879)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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VLAD, thank you for the link. Think I'll order one now to have on hand when the FuelMax is worn out.
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VLAD
Posted 11/21/2015 2:04 PM (#86894 - in reply to #86884)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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I think you can buy them on fleebay too.
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VLAD
Posted 11/21/2015 2:13 PM (#86895 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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fastjoe - 11/17/2015 10:23 PM

The handling is wonderful but a speed bump would probably leave me high centered with broken engine cases.
I'm going to get a hold of Racetech whose springs I have in the front and have them figure out how much preload I need on the springs based on where I am now to get the sag where it belongs on the front end. Right now I have about 2 1/2 inches of sag which is too much. On the back I guess the answer will be longer shocks. Does anyone know if this will cause issues with the Ujoint in the drive line?


I use progressive springs in front fork.
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fastjoe
Posted 11/21/2015 11:30 PM (#86902 - in reply to #86895)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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VLAD - 11/21/2015 11:13 AM

I use progressive springs in front fork.


I went with the racetech because I wanted to run their cartridge emulators in the fork. Also because I have had great luck with their stuff.
They really work great on dirt roads like the one we live on. Smooth things right out.  No parts falling off the bikes which is always good.

Racetech got  back to me and said that I needed about 30%sag. I am fairly certain I have closer to 50% than 30 % right now. I'll have to address that in the next go round.  When I get the sag right it should have a little more ground clearance.

I sent an email off to Champion to see how much they want for a set of slugs for the easy steer.  For whatever reason this bike does not have them installed which is part of the too low in the front problem.    

I'm not really certain how to get more height out of the back yet. II did add some air and then some more to the air shock. It seemed to help in the handling but the bike is lower than I think I want it.  It has a progressive shock on one side set at the highest setting already.

I bled the brake on the sidecar today  and the brakes no longer make noise intermittently.  I think it cleared up the dragging issue.

I'm definitely making progress. Changing to larger tire is pretty much out.  The stock gearing is just to high with the added air resistance of the double wide car.  When I had the factory motorcycle tire on, OD was all but useless. If you clicked into it below 65 the motor didn't have enough torque to maintain speed.  You couldn't really use cruise unless it was perfectly flat or down hill.  If you hit even the slightest rise you were back in 4th. Now OD is good from 55 up on the flat and level.  The change in ratio with this tire is about perfect. 

When I posted asking about if the Ujoint would be adversely affected by using longer shocks most people suggested a larger tire.  The only person to address the if the U joints life might be shortened with the change in angle said it would not affect it.   However it didn't sound like anyone was presently doing  it .   I don't think it will be an issue either, but  thought I better ask in case it was a known issue with the GW.

 

 



Edited by fastjoe 11/21/2015 11:37 PM
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VLAD
Posted 11/23/2015 1:31 PM (#86933 - in reply to #86902)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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Hey fastjoe! Why are you worry about shaft and u joint going 1" up, but not worry about shaft and u joint going 1 1/2' down?

Edited by VLAD 11/23/2015 1:40 PM
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VLAD
Posted 11/23/2015 1:40 PM (#86934 - in reply to #86902)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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fastjoe - 11/21/2015 9:30 PM
Changing to larger tire is pretty much out.  The stock gearing is just to high with the added air resistance of the double wide car.  When I had the factory motorcycle tire on, OD was all but useless. If you clicked into it below 65 the motor didn't have enough torque to maintain speed.  You couldn't really use cruise unless it was perfectly flat or down hill.  If you hit even the slightest rise you were back in 4th. Now OD is good from 55 up on the flat and level.  The change in ratio with this tire is about perfect. 


I think something wrong with your Goldwing. I drive sometimes with 4 people in Colorado. I have to use 4th and 3rd gear sometimes, but i can't say any small hill required shifting down. Also 4th is overdrive as a 5th on gl1500.
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fastjoe
Posted 11/23/2015 10:39 PM (#86943 - in reply to #86934)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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VLAD - 11/23/2015 10:40 AM



I think something wrong with your Goldwing.


Me too, one of the things wrong is the gearing is too tall for this hack.
That's why I'm trying to address it.
It's what I've got. It may have serious issues, I'm really not sure. I'm just trying to get it working better.
I've fixed a lot of problems on it in the short time I have had it. It's definitely getting better.
It's just not quite right yet. This is the first large Honda I have ever owned and I really have grown fond of it.
I love the engineering.


Edited by fastjoe 11/23/2015 11:32 PM
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fastjoe
Posted 11/23/2015 10:46 PM (#86944 - in reply to #86933)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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VLAD - 11/23/2015 10:31 AM

Hey fastjoe! Why are you worry about shaft and u joint going 1" up, but not worry about shaft and u joint going 1 1/2' down?

I'm not sure I understand your question.
I'm not worried at all about running the driveshaft in the range it was designed to be run in.
I'm concerned about running it where it was never designed to run which would happen with a longer than spec'd shock.
Though most of the time it will be running within the range it was designed to run in with a longer shock there are times when it maybe running fully extended and supplying a lot of torque. After hitting a large bump for instance or going through a pothole. Don't want to make something that will break and leave me stranded if I can avoid it.



Edited by fastjoe 11/23/2015 11:29 PM
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VLAD
Posted 11/24/2015 10:45 AM (#86948 - in reply to #86943)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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fastjoe - 11/23/2015 8:39 PM

VLAD - 11/23/2015 10:40 AM



I think something wrong with your Goldwing.


Me too, one of the things wrong is the gearing is too tall for this hack.
That's why I'm trying to address it.
It's what I've got. It may have serious issues, I'm really not sure. I'm just trying to get it working better.
I've fixed a lot of problems on it in the short time I have had it. It's definitely getting better.
It's just not quite right yet. This is the first large Honda I have ever owned and I really have grown fond of it.
I love the engineering.


I have same bike with taller gearing(bigger tire) and do not thing gearing is too tall for this hack. May be you need to check your carbs, timing , etc.... Looks like it do not produce as much power as it can.
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fastjoe
Posted 11/25/2015 12:36 AM (#86950 - in reply to #86948)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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VLAD - 11/24/2015 7:45 AM

fastjoe - 11/23/2015 8:39 PM

VLAD - 11/23/2015 10:40 AM



I think something wrong with your Goldwing.


Me too, one of the things wrong is the gearing is too tall for this hack.
That's why I'm trying to address it.
It's what I've got. It may have serious issues, I'm really not sure. I'm just trying to get it working better.
I've fixed a lot of problems on it in the short time I have had it. It's definitely getting better.
It's just not quite right yet. This is the first large Honda I have ever owned and I really have grown fond of it.
I love the engineering.


I have same bike with taller gearing(bigger tire) and do not thing gearing is too tall for this hack. May be you need to check your carbs, timing , etc.... Looks like it do not produce as much power as it can.


It makes sense. I will definitely look into it. This bike has probably never had the timing checked, at least not in a very long time. This spring I will do tha or maybe even sooner than thatt.
The carbs have been rebuilt and work pretty good after I ran a couple of cans of seafoam through them. The mufflers are not stock and are pretty straight through which might be costing me some torque down low. I need to check the afr to be sure it is not running lean also. I put new timing belts and idlers on it so I am sure the cam timing is correct.
I believe the Tstat is bad as this bike is very slow to warm up when it is cold out. That needs attention too but I will do that in the summer.

Thanks for the help.



Edited by fastjoe 11/25/2015 12:44 AM
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VLAD
Posted 11/25/2015 9:37 AM (#86951 - in reply to #86950)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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Looks like you have a lot on your plate.
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fastjoe
Posted 11/25/2015 4:33 PM (#86953 - in reply to #86951)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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VLAD - 11/25/2015 6:37 AM

Looks like you have a lot on your plate.

It can be this way with used bikes sometimes. You take your chances when you buy one.
What mufflers are you running? Are they stock?
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VLAD
Posted 11/26/2015 1:11 PM (#86960 - in reply to #86953)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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Stock mufflers.
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fastjoe
Posted 11/26/2015 1:31 PM (#86961 - in reply to #86960)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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Thanks,
I'm guessing that a lot of my missing low end torque has to do with the louder, straight though mufflers that were put on this bike by the previous owner. I think I have a set of stock ones but they aren't where I am right now unfortunately. I'll have to address that problem correctly in the spring. Right now I'll see if I have enough stuff here to fab up something to create a little back pressure to restore some of the missing torque. It's won't be as good as the factory muffler but it should help.

Thanks again you've been most helpful.
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CCjon
Posted 11/26/2015 4:28 PM (#86966 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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fastjoe

When I got my '94 Wing/Escort, it was running, took a test ride before buying but was not running at optimum efficiency. Like you I had no previous experience with the Wings. After my trying to sort it out, finally took it to an older experienced Wing mechanic for a tune up. He knows these machines inside and out, knew what to look for. He found parts that were installed backwards, etc. now it runs like a top, cruising at 80 + on the interstate all day long. Plenty of low end torque (with stock mufflers and gearing) for a five gallon aux fuel tank, tools, parts and gear for a month on the road.

Was not inexpensive but worth every penny. Ask some of the older Wing riders in your area who they would trust to work on their GW.

Good luck getting it sorted out.
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fastjoe
Posted 11/26/2015 7:14 PM (#86972 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: RE: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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I'll do that. I'm in phoenix area right now so there should be someone local who can look at it here. I'll ask around.

Edited by fastjoe 11/26/2015 7:15 PM
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High Octane
Posted 11/27/2015 8:00 AM (#86973 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?


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Don't u think that getting the rear height back up to factory height spec will actually get the drive shaft back into the correct alignment and the current situation is misaligned?
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VLAD
Posted 11/27/2015 12:03 PM (#86975 - in reply to #86973)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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If you use automotive tire you can't get factory correct alignment. It is ether +1" or -1.5". I don't think it will be a problem in both cases.
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fastjoe
Posted 11/28/2015 1:07 AM (#86979 - in reply to #86973)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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High Octane - 11/27/2015 5:00 AM

Don't u think that getting the rear height back up to factory height spec will actually get the drive shaft back into the correct alignment and the current situation is misaligned?

 

It depends on how I do it.  If I put a stock or slightly taller than stock tire on,  to get more clearance there is no misalignment.   Right now there is no misalignment just not what I would consider optimum clearance in the back because the sidewall of the tire is shorter and the tire has a flat profile too.

It is the length of the shock that determines the angle of the U joint.   The longer the shock the greater the angle of the U joint when the shock is fully extended.  Right now I will concentrate on getting more clearance through slugs in the fork tubes and the correct sag.  When I get that done I will see how the bike looks and go from there.   The good thing is that no one has popped up in these conversations and said don't use longer shocks,  I knew someone who did that and broke their bike.  That gives me hope.

 

 




Edited by fastjoe 11/28/2015 1:30 AM
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High Octane
Posted 11/28/2015 9:51 AM (#86981 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?


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Yeah on my 200 mile drive home from turkey day I thought thru this and have a better understanding of how a shorter tire doesn't change the shaft angle very much. If I thought thru it right, the ce ter line of the axel to the ground is less but the engine end of drive shaft is also lower so the angle stays approximately the same. But the bike frame is also lower to the ground, thus the speed bump problem. And raising the frame with longer shocks puts the engine end if the drive shaft up a ways, and thus the question on shaft angle.
Ok so I get it now. But I don't have any help for u on if a new shaft angle will be a problem.
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SidehackRalf
Posted 11/28/2015 12:14 PM (#86984 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?


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I run a Volkswagen rim on my 89 1500/Escort and with a low profile radial it is quite low. Drags on speed bumps, getting and out of trailer etc. I have the Progressive single shock on the rear and 1 and a half inch risers on top of easy-steer. I am thinking that a longer shock would put a little too much strain on my rig so I'll just live with it because otherwise the rig handles excellent.
Ralph
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fastjoe
Posted 12/3/2015 12:50 AM (#87018 - in reply to #86984)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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SidehackRalf - 11/28/2015 9:14 AM

I run a Volkswagen rim on my 89 1500/Escort and with a low profile radial it is quite low. Drags on speed bumps, getting and out of trailer etc. I have the Progressive single shock on the rear and 1 and a half inch risers on top of easy-steer. I am thinking that a longer shock would put a little too much strain on my rig so I'll just live with it because otherwise the rig handles excellent.
Ralph


Next rear tire change I am going to see if I can feel any binding if I move the swingarm and inch lower. Probably not very scientific but if it does act different then I know that longer shocks or relocated shock mounts are not going to work.
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CCjon
Posted 12/3/2015 5:01 AM (#87019 - in reply to #86984)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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SidehackRalf - 11/28/2015 11:14 AM

I run a Volkswagen rim on my 89 1500/Escort and with a low profile radial it is quite low. ... I have the Progressive single shock on the rear and 1 and a half inch risers on top of easy-steer...
Ralph


Ralph, am confused. Help me understand.

How are you running a single rear shock on dual shock bike?

Are the 1 1/2 inch risers, front fork tube extensions or handle bar risers?



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fastjoe
Posted 12/3/2015 12:37 PM (#87021 - in reply to #87019)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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CCjon - 12/3/2015 2:01 AM

SidehackRalf - 11/28/2015 11:14 AM

I run a Volkswagen rim on my 89 1500/Escort and with a low profile radial it is quite low. ... I have the Progressive single shock on the rear and 1 and a half inch risers on top of easy-steer...
Ralph


Ralph, am confused. Help me understand.

How are you running a single rear shock on dual shock bike?

Are the 1 1/2 inch risers, front fork tube extensions or handle bar risers?





Not Ralph here but I think I can explain his comment about the progressive single shock. When I took my bike apart to go through the rear drive I found that it had 1 shock from progressive on one side and the factory air shock on the car side. The shock from progressive is very much the conventional coil over with a cam type preload adjustment. Mine was set to the highest preload setting so I left it there.
The air shock is not a shock though. This I discovered when i changed the fluid in it. .. It's an air cylinder that looks and attaches like a conventional shock but provides an adjustable "air spring" that allows you to compensate for more passenger or cargo weight. It has no dampener of any sort and can be freely repositioned for length with no resistance when it has air but no pressure in it. When you have no air pressure in it, it's just along for the ride. The swingarm is robust enough on these bikes that having a shock and dampening on only one side works well and mounting it on the side of the swingarm instead of in front of the rear wheel as is fashionable now days keeps the wheel base to a reasonable length.

All that to say that if you buy a progressive shock for the gl1500 I believe they just send you one. They don't send you a new air lift for the car side.

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SidehackRalf
Posted 12/3/2015 12:59 PM (#87022 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?


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Hi, like Fastjoe said, it's just one side. I had the option of Progressive's two shock setup and in hindsight probably should have went that way. The front spacers I ordered on line, their machined out of aluminum stock and threaded to fit the top of fork tubes. It does set higher but suffers from some stiction so I went back to the OEM springs last time I had them out, but think I'll put the Progressive springs back in. In order to change oil in forks I have to take the tops off.
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CCjon
Posted 12/3/2015 2:50 PM (#87023 - in reply to #86862)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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Thank you, now I get it.

I replaced both Honda rear shocks with Harley style shocks with heavy duty springs.
On the front, went with an EZ Steer triple tree. Single handed easy steering now.
Still have the stock springs in front.
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fastjoe
Posted 12/3/2015 3:32 PM (#87024 - in reply to #87023)
Subject: Re: raising the rear of a Gl1500 any Ujoint issues?



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CCjon - 12/3/2015 11:50 AM

Thank you, now I get it.

I replaced both Honda rear shocks with Harley style shocks with heavy duty springs.
On the front, went with an EZ Steer triple tree. Single handed easy steering now.
Still have the stock springs in front.

Did the HD shocks go right on and were they the same length as the stock goldwing shocks?
Hd made some 13 1/2 inch shocks for the Iron head sportster that had some pretty heavy springs on them I remember. Were they for them by chance?
Just looking for options as I work this out.
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