Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question
phlaug
Posted 12/13/2015 11:32 AM (#87096)
Subject: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Regular

Posts: 85
252525
Location: Durham, Connecticut
Rather than pick up the old threads I went through, just thought I'd start a new one with my thanks...

Yesterday, picked up my GL1500 / CSC Friendship III with new tires -- first time switching over from OEM motorcycle tires.

Up front: Bridgestone Battlax BT45 rear tire 130/70R18

Rear: Goodyear Assurance 175/60R16

I * l o v e * the difference!!!

Granted, the tires they replaced were on last legs so I was scrubbing the front a LOT, but the planted feel of the rear on acceleration is superb.


Only little niggly thing, that I'm going to guess I just have to live with, but will throw it out anyway: the rear end is now a little side-to-side squirrelly, which I have no doubt has to do with the difference in sidewall characteristics of the car tire versus a motorcycle rear tire...

But my question to you long-time darksiders is whether there is anything to be done about this. I guess actually, my first question is what tire pressure do you run, and does that impact this sidewall flex much?


Thanks to everyone for keeping a great forum going to help build the collective knowledge base of the sidecarring ranks!

Phil




For reference, the prices:

BikeBandit.com
Bridgestone Battlax BT45 Motorcycle Tire 42080
1 $118.29
No shipping charge!

TireRack.com
175/60R-16 GOODYEAR ASSURANCE FUEL MAX SL
Item(s) Total: $134.20
Shipping: $12.55
Sales Tax: $9.32
Order Total: $156.07
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Hack'n
Posted 12/13/2015 12:36 PM (#87097 - in reply to #87096)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Expert

Posts: 4833
2000200050010010010025
Location: Boise, Idaho
For a softer ride,I usually ran 28psi with my StreetGlide Liberty rig with195/55/16 Bridgestone or Hankook rear tire. Upped that to 32psi with rig loaded for touring with a monkey.

I wet down the rear tire then rolled over the concrete deck of the shop, adjusting tire pressure till I had the total tread footprint all the way across.
Different pressures depending upon whether the rig was fully loaded or not.

Lonnie
Top of the page Bottom of the page
phlaug
Posted 12/13/2015 12:46 PM (#87098 - in reply to #87097)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Regular

Posts: 85
252525
Location: Durham, Connecticut
Thank you, Lonnie -- very cool tip regarding the footprint. I like it.

Any commentary on the sidewall flex I'm noticing? Just "the way it is"?

Thanks!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 12/13/2015 11:04 PM (#87102 - in reply to #87098)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
phlaug - 12/13/2015 9:46 AM

Thank you, Lonnie -- very cool tip regarding the footprint. I like it.

Any commentary on the sidewall flex I'm noticing? Just "the way it is"?

Thanks!


I would definitely experiment with the tire pressures if the tire feels squirmy. Some of the new generation of eco/ low noise tires can be stiffened up by adding pressure and the tread will still lie flat on the road. Some of the tires will take much more air than you would imagine and the tread will not wear uneven. The only side effect is a stiffer sidewall and less shimmy.

You might try adding more air to stiffen up the tire then check the footprint to be sure that it will not lead to premature wear. Adjust accordingly depending on what the footprint looks like. Then keep an eye on the tread wear to be sure it really isn't wearing in the center more than the rest of the tire. Could help. I ran some low noise eco tires on a car with an extra 10# of air once without getting premature wear on the center of the tire. The tires could not be returned and shimmied terribly at normal pressure. I over inflated them figuring I could at least drive them till I could get some different ones. To my surprise the over inflation had no affect on the wear of the tire. It may even have made them last longer. The only affect was getting rid of the shimmy and a firmer ride. Bonus was that they were much quieter than the Michelin's they had replaced which was what I had hoped for when I ordered them.
You might get lucky..

Edited by fastjoe 12/13/2015 11:26 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
VLAD
Posted 12/15/2015 1:10 PM (#87129 - in reply to #87096)
Subject: RE: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 411
100100100100
Location: DENVER, COLORADO
Your new rear tire smaller then OEM. Make sure alignment of your rig is checked. Most likely it need to be adjusted.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
phlaug
Posted 12/15/2015 5:01 PM (#87135 - in reply to #87096)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Regular

Posts: 85
252525
Location: Durham, Connecticut
Interesting point, Vlad.

It probably was out of adjustment before -- it runs straighter/truer now (used to pull a bit more to the right)! LOL

And I feel like it can handle highway speed more easily.

I think all the differences have been to the positive, but for the little bit of squirrely-ness, but that's only on fast turns -- so only 80% of the time!!!! Hahahahahahaahah
Top of the page Bottom of the page
AJ1200
Posted 12/17/2015 9:39 AM (#87146 - in reply to #87096)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 277
100100252525
Location: Savannah Ga
I am running the exact same set up as you are right now, the Fuel max is a non run flat so the sidewalls are a softer. I found for me for that just right feel I run 40 PSI in the front and rear
at first I wasn't sure I was going to like the fuel max until I bumped the pressure up
on my bike anything under 40 on the Battlax and it pulls harder during on/off throttle

Top of the page Bottom of the page
phlaug
Posted 12/17/2015 9:51 AM (#87147 - in reply to #87096)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Regular

Posts: 85
252525
Location: Durham, Connecticut
Thanks for the input Ace, I'll try 40 psi. I am so pumped with the setup -- falling in love with my rig all over again!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
trikebldr
Posted 12/30/2015 9:43 PM (#87335 - in reply to #87096)
Subject: RE: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 104
100
Location: Independence, MO.
I seem to be missing something here and I hope you'ze guys can straighten me out on running a car tire. Phil, I have a rear wheel from a '94 GL1500 and it is a 16" X 3.5" wide rim. That's why your case interests me so much! I know your rear wheel has a 3.5" wide rim. Almost all car tires I find ask for at least a 5" wide rim. A couple of smaller ones have recommended a 4.5" wide rim. What am I missing here? Are you guys all mounting the car tires on these 3.5" wide rims? I would expect such a combination to feel squirrelly. I might feel comfortable mounting to a 4.5" wide rim, but going 1-1/2" narrower than recommended just seems to be too much. Especially with a sidecar where there is a LOT more lateral loading on the tire than on a solo bike.

I read about going to the darkside all the time, but nobody talks about their rim widths. If you guys are mounting these car tires with 5" rim width recommendations to a 3.5" wide rim and having good results, then I will accept that.

My bike is a 1984 Kawasaki Voyager 1300 and has a 16" X 3.5" wheel. I pull a Vetter Terraplane sidecar, so I wanted a car tire to get a flatter tread pattern and for better wear and higher load rating.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
phlaug
Posted 12/30/2015 10:20 PM (#87336 - in reply to #87096)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Regular

Posts: 85
252525
Location: Durham, Connecticut
I have the stock wheel on the GL1500. I'll take your word for the width, I didn't mount the tire myself, a mechanic did it. The squirrerly-ness is noticeable, but not unrideable in the least, cf.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MjRlMLORbE

I trusted the threads I'd read before and went with it and am very happy I did.

Good luck!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
trikebldr
Posted 12/30/2015 10:35 PM (#87338 - in reply to #87336)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 104
100
Location: Independence, MO.
Thanks for the quick reply, Phil! And for the YouTube link! I loved it, especially the flying part! If you can fly with confidence on that tire, you've convinced me! I'm not a canyon carver, so all out cornering isn't terribly important. Just a wide, flat tread for stopping power and better wear.

OK, just like you, I am going to close my eyes and jump into the dark pool! Looking at the Dunlop Graspic DS-3. $61.30 plus about $15 shipping (Tire Rack). I really like it's flatter tread than most.

Would still like to hear from others with rims is wider than 3.5".
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 12/31/2015 12:31 AM (#87342 - in reply to #87338)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
trikebldr - 12/30/2015 7:35 PM

Thanks for the quick reply, Phil! And for the YouTube link! I loved it, especially the flying part! If you can fly with confidence on that tire, you've convinced me! I'm not a canyon carver, so all out cornering isn't terribly important. Just a wide, flat tread for stopping power and better wear.

OK, just like you, I am going to close my eyes and jump into the dark pool! Looking at the Dunlop Graspic DS-3. $61.30 plus about $15 shipping (Tire Rack). I really like it's flatter tread than most.

Would still like to hear from others with rims is wider than 3.5".


I am running that tire right now. It is my first darkside tire and I bought it because it seemed like a good way to check out running a car tire on the hack.
It is an amazing tire in the rain, I even got to use it some on ice and in a little snow, it was rock solid on everything. Very cool. Being a snow tire it has been wearing down quite quickly unfortunately. At 3000 miles this tire is over half gone. Part of the wear is that we did not have the tow in dialed in for the first 1500 miles. Part is that we have been doing a lot of extended 75 mph driving. I think a lot of is the fact that studless snow tires like the Graspic are very soft tires. They also do not have a wear rating on them so there is no way to compare one to another.
My next tire is going to be a Yokohama I found in a slightly smaller diameter that has an 800 wear rating. I don't want to have to change tires any more often than absolutely necessary on this GL1500 as it isn't any fun at all. I'd suggest a different tire personally. The Graspic just wears too fast.




Edited by fastjoe 12/31/2015 12:33 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
trikebldr
Posted 12/31/2015 1:24 AM (#87343 - in reply to #87342)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 104
100
Location: Independence, MO.
Thanks for the input, Joe! I went ahead and ordered two of them since they are pretty cheap. Actually, I like the softer compound tires for better braking. Couldn't possibly wear faster than just about any ole cycle tire, and far cheaper! I could buy three of them for what one Elite 3 tire would cost me! I really like what you said about the traction in the rain! I'm not much for riding in snow or ice, but sometimes get caught in the rain in the spring to fall seasons. It's also good to hear that you have it on a GL1500 since it has the 16" X 3.5" wheel just like on my Voyager 1300. Did you notice if that narrower rim made the tread bow outward more in the center or did it stay pretty flat across?
I'm just hoping one will last me long enough until they come back next year for the winter sales. A lot of the studless snow tires are being taken out of inventories because the winter sales season is practically over.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
trikebldr
Posted 12/31/2015 1:31 AM (#87344 - in reply to #87342)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 104
100
Location: Independence, MO.
Joe, FWIW, one article I read about the the Graspic tire said that the outer part of the tread was a soft compound, but after about 1/3 is worn away, the compound gets harder for slower wear. It even has wear indicators that tell you when the snow rating is worn away and it becomes like a normal all-season tire. Maybe we're pioneering new ground here into the darkside!?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
trikebldr
Posted 12/31/2015 1:40 AM (#87345 - in reply to #87342)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 104
100
Location: Independence, MO.
One last thought here. Nobody ever speaks of what kinds of riding they do mostly, like short runs or all highway use. Nor do we hear about what materials their state/county uses to pave their roads. Some states put a lot of recycled glass in their pavements to make it last longer, and that takes it's toll on tires. Hawaii uses a lot of coral. I couldn't get 2000 miles out of rear tire over there on my little Yamaha RD-350!
Missouri uses straight up sand-and-gravel asphalt and concrete mostly, so we don't have any extra-wear issues here. Any idea what they use in your area, Joe?
Did you use balance beads, or wheel weights?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 12/31/2015 1:55 AM (#87346 - in reply to #87343)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
trikebldr - 12/30/2015 10:24 PM
. Did you notice if that narrower rim made the tread bow outward more in the center or did it stay pretty flat across?
r.


I measured the tire tread for uneven wear when I first noticed it was wearing out quickly. It was even all the way across something that I too had been worried about with the wider tire on the narrow rim.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 12/31/2015 2:22 AM (#87348 - in reply to #87345)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
trikebldr - 12/30/2015 10:40 PM

One last thought here. Nobody ever speaks of what kinds of riding they do mostly, like short runs or all highway use. Nor do we hear about what materials their state/county uses to pave their roads. Some states put a lot of recycled glass in their pavements to make it last longer, and that takes it's toll on tires. Hawaii uses a lot of coral. I couldn't get 2000 miles out of rear tire over there on my little Yamaha RD-350!
Missouri uses straight up sand-and-gravel asphalt and concrete mostly, so we don't have any extra-wear issues here. Any idea what they use in your area, Joe?
Did you use balance beads, or wheel weights?

I did see the different wear bars and I am hoping now that I am down to the all season part of the tread that the wear slows down significantly. I have the other tire on hand too in the case that it doesn't last that much longer. It will be interesting to see what the final mileage is.

In the part of WA I live in they use straight crushed rock in the seal coat but it is a larger stone than you would find in asphalt mix. The surface when new resembles a cheese grater and it is hard on motorcycle tires till it gets worn smooth. They re seal coat the roads every other year it seems because of the wear from studded snow tires and chains which are often a must to get around.

Right now I am in AZ. The roads are smoother and the road surface is older here. The tire is wearing slower but still wearing away faster than I had hoped. The tire is balanced with weights. Took very little weight to balance it. There is a TPS unit in it so I was afraid to use beads. I am having a difficult time finding a shop that will mount a car tire on a motorcycle wheel down here. One shop just said no, another said that they expected the price to be around $100 based on previous experience. As it wears down more I will be more motivated to find someone who is willing to change it hopefully for less than the $100 figure.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
trikebldr
Posted 12/31/2015 12:18 PM (#87355 - in reply to #87348)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 104
100
Location: Independence, MO.
Joe, that mounting issue is a usual one since everybody is so litigious these days! I am a serious DIY'er, so I simply bought a good set of three tire irons and some rim savers to mount my own. I learned a long time ago that anybody can SAY they will protect your rims, but once it's gouged, it's too late, and all the apologies in the world won't replace a damaged rim, especially from an antique bike that's 32 years old, or more. If ya want something done right, DIY!!!

Tire Rack advises on their website that these Dunlop snow tires are usually only sold in fours since they don't recommend mixing them with other radials. They also tell you straight up that they MAY call to talk to the buyer about this issue and to verify that they will not be mixed! When ordering last night (I ordered two!) I told them they would be mounted on a sidecar. I DID get an email asking me to verify that they will be mounted only on a car wheel and not on a motorcycle wheel. THEY WILL NOT RELEASE THE ORDER IF THE TIRES WILL BE MOUNTED ON A MC WHEEL!!!! So, I simply replied that "...they will be used on a 'car wheel."! Tire Rack cannot possibly control what they will actually be used on once they ship them. What a farce to even try! Why not just post all of the warnings, like they already do, and let it go at that?

I did order two of them since they were at such a low close-out clearance price. Besides, I have two Voyager 1300's and even the second one will get a sidecar next year. (I can't ride such a huge, heavy bike without one.)

Joe, very interesting about the TPS. May I ask why you run one? Is it the kind that gives an actual pressure reading, like the ones on motorhomes, or just a low pressure warning? I know a lot of guys run those when they use a run-flat tire so they will know if the tire loses pressure. Otherwise they may never know with a run-flat until the tire is destroyed! The reason I ask about your use of the TPS is because these snow tires are not ZP's. Just curious! I will also run one if I can find a smaller version that gives actual pressure readings.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 12/31/2015 1:22 PM (#87358 - in reply to #87355)
Subject: Re: Thanks for tire recommendations and a darkside follow-up question



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
The tps came with the rig it was already installed when I bought it. They are just on the motorcycles wheels not the car. It's kind of handy because the valve stems in the back are hard to get to with the car attached. Once you are moving you can push a button and it will tell you the tire pressure and temperature. If and when the sending units die I haven't decided if I will replace the unit with a new one or not. This unit isn't made anymore and when the batteries are dead in the transmitters they are not replaceable. So there is a definite end of life date for it.

It is of handy if when you are driving and the bike feels a little funny to be able to push the button and find out if it is that you are getting a flat. Especially when it is raining outside or slushy, etc.. However I don't like having the senders internal to the rim as it complicates changing tires, especially a car tire or a rear MC tire mounted on a narrow front rim. It's hard to get the tire remounted without accidentally damaging the unit. Somehow we lucked out this time though and it still was fine in the end and still works. I might eventually become a convert to the TPS system. Jury is still out at the moment though. I definitely would not recommend a unit that has a sender that fits inside the tire though if you are considering one on a bike that will have a car tire mounted on it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page