new ural or new hack?
slapping_rabbits
Posted 7/8/2016 8:54 PM (#89806)
Subject: new ural or new hack?



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Hi Everyone,

I'm finally at the point where i can upgrade from my 87 shadow vlx 600 to something else and I'm excited! I really want something with a sidecar, but I could use some input and experienced opinions on my options.

I'm considering a newer fuel injected ural. I'd love the off-road option for camping, weekend nature photography, riding through the snow, etc that I don't have now. I probably won't like the 70mph top speed, but that's what I commute to work daily at anyways so it wouldn't be anything new. There is parallel highway that is 55 and only adds about 5 minutes of commute time and the sideroads are much more scenic and only had maybe 10 so I have slower options that I often use because of how bad traffic is here in northern Maryland.

I've heard and see the list of upgrades to these things over the past couple years from previous versions. They seem more reliable with these upgrades and yet people are still reporting problems that they fix (usually pretty easily by themselves which is awesome) that I rarely hear about with other bikes. I'm having a hard time finding reviews on the newer rigs that talk about potential long term reliability. I don't mind learning how to fix a bike and do all the recommended maintenance, but I don't want to be constantly fixing it, especially when out with the wife and dog and future children wondering if we are going to be able to get back home or not.

Well why not get a more reliable bike and just have someone put a sidecar on it? The cost and the time mostly. I'm looking at a newer bike like the rocket III or something with a lot of torque that could easily handle a sidecar. If I get something like that then I'd have to save up the additional 6-8 thousand before i could get someone to put a sidecar on it. It might be worth the couple years it will take to get to that point, but that's more time not being able to ride. I should also note that me and my wife plan on having kids within the year so I'm concerned that future years will have my money prioritized with other things. So its a gamble.

I've never been on a sidecar and there's a ural dealership about 2 hours away in Maryland and about 2.5 hours away in New Jersey. I'm sure they'd let me try one out when I get there, but I don't know anyone that has a sidecar at all either in town or on base. That was the other reason I wanted to know about fixing one myself is that no one is close by. The dealers that are nearby already told me they won't touch or any bike with a sidecar except for the one triumph place in Annapolis and they will only work on triumphs with sidecars. Annapolis is 1.5 hours away. The local dealership won't work on my honda either even though they sell honda's because its too old. They have a terrible reputation so I really don't want to deal with them anyways. There are sidecar courses, but they seem to be in Virginia so its even further than the dealers and getting through traffic in Baltimore and DC is going to make that a very long drive. I'm not complaining, but I think I'm just spoiled from living most of my life in the country in Idaho and Oregon and never having to deal with traffic.

Really what I want to know is if its going to be reliable enough and if its worth it? If so do you recommend one of the 2wd's like the gear up or patrol or should i just stick with a ct? Do you recommend a used already set up rig? I've seen some of them in the for sale forum, but the prices seem high and one reason I was looking at a newer bike is so I can finance.

Except for commuting, I suspect the dog will be riding with me all the time and the wife quite often. I plan on doing everything on this bike from buying groceries, to carrying golf clubs to well, everything. I really think it'll be great to grab the dog on my every other friday off and my camera and paddleboard and hit the trails or dirt roads and get pictures and hit the water after. What accessories do your recommend for a sidecar rig? Also, if I'm missing something or another good option please let me know.

Thanks!
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Hack'n
Posted 7/9/2016 5:47 PM (#89808 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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If you are going to buy a URAL, a Tourist (single wheel drive) model will better fit your commuting needs. They will cruise at a higher speed than the two wheel drive models, give better fuel mileage and there is less machinery to go haywire. The original cost is somewhat less also.
The single wheel drive models can go almost everywhere the two wheel drive ones go.
The upgraded new URALS are much more dependable than they were 20 years ago.

Lonnie
NWSC
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davet
Posted 7/10/2016 7:03 AM (#89810 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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If you haven't already done so, you should read some of the Ural threads on the advrider forum. There are a lot of opinions and experiences written there both pro and con for Ural ownership. I have only ridden a couple of them very briefly so I don't have any real experience with them.

Edited by davet 7/10/2016 7:05 AM
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Big Tom
Posted 7/10/2016 12:52 PM (#89811 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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MCN did an in depth review of a Ural not too long ago. If I remember correctly they recommended against a 2WD unless you were going to spend 99% of your time off road. Also realize that 70 MPH is the top speed and that you will be Maxed out most of the time. I test sat a Ural at a recent open house. I stand 6'1" and I was only comfortable while sitting on the Back seat.
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Big Tom
Posted 7/10/2016 1:07 PM (#89812 - in reply to #89811)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Here's an option..... Don't let the miles scare you.

http://easternshore.craigslist.org/mcy/5667956729.html
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slapping_rabbits
Posted 7/11/2016 8:23 AM (#89819 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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Thank you all for your input. I came across the MCN review and its pretty damning:

http://www.motorcycleconsumernews-digitalmagazine.com/mcnews/august...

It makes me wonder if they just had a lemon or if the set-up was bad or if that is just how many of these Urals are? Either way, it does not paint a pretty picture and is making me seriously consider putting a sidecar on a more modern bike.
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jaydmc
Posted 7/11/2016 10:28 AM (#89821 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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One of the reasons many people buy a Ural is that they can finance it and they figure that they can not finance a motorcycle sidecar combination. This is not true if you work with the dealer of the motorcycle and they purchase the sidecar from the manufacture the sidecars can be included in the financing.
If you want some thing other then the Ural, there are many very nice bikes around that can be set up for about the same money as a Ural. On popular bike and sidecar combination is the Triumph Bonneville with our M72B, when done you are at similar money to a Ural but with a modern bike where down the road should you wish to up grade you can pull the sidecar off of the bike and put the bike back totally stock and move the sidecar to your next bike. This is not really the case with the Ural as a Ural motorcycle with out its sidecar has a very small market making the bike with out the sidecar really worth next to nothing. I point out the Bonneville as it makes a nice combination but there are many other bikes out there you could do this with, The Indian Scout with our Tomahawk would also be about the same money as would many other bikes and sidecars. We have also done the Rocket 3 with our Kenna sidecar but for what you are looking to do 2300cc might be a bit of an over kill.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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slapping_rabbits
Posted 7/11/2016 10:45 AM (#89822 - in reply to #89812)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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Big Tom - 7/10/2016 1:07 PM

Here's an option..... Don't let the miles scare you.

http://easternshore.craigslist.org/mcy/5667956729.html


WHOA! Just under a 100k miles...on a motorcycle!!! That's impressive, but I don't think bikes have the kind of longevity cars do right?
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slapping_rabbits
Posted 7/11/2016 10:54 AM (#89823 - in reply to #89821)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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jaydmc - 7/11/2016 10:28 AM

One of the reasons many people buy a Ural is that they can finance it and they figure that they can not finance a motorcycle sidecar combination. This is not true if you work with the dealer of the motorcycle and they purchase the sidecar from the manufacture the sidecars can be included in the financing.
If you want some thing other then the Ural, there are many very nice bikes around that can be set up for about the same money as a Ural. On popular bike and sidecar combination is the Triumph Bonneville with our M72B, when done you are at similar money to a Ural but with a modern bike where down the road should you wish to up grade you can pull the sidecar off of the bike and put the bike back totally stock and move the sidecar to your next bike. This is not really the case with the Ural as a Ural motorcycle with out its sidecar has a very small market making the bike with out the sidecar really worth next to nothing. I point out the Bonneville as it makes a nice combination but there are many other bikes out there you could do this with, The Indian Scout with our Tomahawk would also be about the same money as would many other bikes and sidecars. We have also done the Rocket 3 with our Kenna sidecar but for what you are looking to do 2300cc might be a bit of an over kill.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793


I'm really glad you said that! I do need to finance it and I had no idea you could add in the sidecar. I went ahead and looked at the bonnies with sidecar rigs and those are pretty cool looking. That actually does seem like a really good fit. The scrambler setups look even better in my opinion and the knobby wheels might be a bit better for some of the light trails and gravel roads I want to ride on. The scrambler I sat on seemed to fit my inseam a little better than the bonnie as well. The rocket is a massive bike! I sat on it and it felt just right so maybe I'll test ride one of those as well. Its good to have options! BTW what would happen if you put one of the smaller sidecars on something like a rocket?
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jaydmc
Posted 7/11/2016 11:39 AM (#89825 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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All of our sidecars will work fine with the rocket some would require ballast but all are strong enough for ballast
Jay G
DMC sidecars
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VLAD
Posted 7/11/2016 1:12 PM (#89829 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: RE: new ural or new hack?



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2 days ago in Hotchkiss I had conversation with 2 people who like Ural.
One told me he took Ural from Texas to Florida and then to Alaska 10k miles. And then need to replace engine.
2nd replace 7 final drives and at least 2 engines in 30k miles.
Both of them like there Ural.
I say if you want to have conversation piece and spend time repairing it go ahead and buy it.
If your plan to ride - do not buy Ural.
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Big Tom
Posted 7/11/2016 2:44 PM (#89830 - in reply to #89822)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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slapping_rabbits - 7/11/2016 7:45 AM

Big Tom - 7/10/2016 1:07 PM

Here's an option..... Don't let the miles scare you.

http://easternshore.craigslist.org/mcy/5667956729.html


WHOA! Just under a 100k miles...on a motorcycle!!! That's impressive, but I don't think bikes have the kind of longevity cars do right?


I currently have 81K on a 1999 Valkyrie that I bought new.. The last time I looked the current Valkyrie record holder was zeroing in on 450K on the same motor. I'm sure that their are Gold Wings with as many or more miles on them.
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JWnWyoming
Posted 7/12/2016 8:38 AM (#89835 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Goldwings can see half a million miles with proper maintenance.
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slapping_rabbits
Posted 7/12/2016 9:18 AM (#89836 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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That is amazing! Now I'm wondering if other monster sized engine bikes like the concours and rocket and vtx1800, etc have that kind of longevity? This is seriously making me consider something like the valkeryie (its got a goldwing engine right?) for my next bike with a sidecar. I also heard one of the goldwings has an airbag. That is quiet the safety feature.
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Al Olme
Posted 7/12/2016 11:01 AM (#89839 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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ncdave - 7/12/2016 9:08 AM

the twins don't get quite as much longevity as the 4s and 6s, but they are far better than they used to be.


Dave, have you ever heard of BMW's? The "old ones" have a horizontally opposed two cylinder engine and are known to run for hundreds of thousands of miles. I rode my own 1963 rig this morning out to get a haircut and I not only got there but I also made it home. Or are you just talking about Asian bikes?
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Big Tom
Posted 7/12/2016 11:35 AM (#89844 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Here is a Champion for sale on C/L in Arizona. He just dropped the price by $500.

http://tucson.craigslist.org/mpo/5645646359.html
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Lloyd
Posted 7/12/2016 12:45 PM (#89847 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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I just want to add my thoughts, I have owned 14 motorcycles, started out on BMWs, changed to Gold Wings when my local BMW dealer retired, and left me without a dealer within reasonable distance, tried a couple of other bikes that seemed to fit my needs at the time. My last four have been Gold Wings with sidecars, 3 1500s and a 1800. Now I have my first Ural rig. A Ural is not a good choice for everyone, it depends on riding style and desire. For instance, I lived in the Texas Hill Country for 15 years with 2 lane rural road speed limits of up to 75 MPH, and would have been run over. If I needed a reliable bike to ride to work every day, I wouldn't want to depend on a Ural. If I had a two week vacation and wanted to ride 500 mile days and see as much country as possible and had to be back to work at the end of the two weeks, Ural wouldn't be my choice. All that said, for my riding style now my 2013 Ural Patrol is perfect. I am 74 years old, retired and don't need to be anywhere in a hurry, live in Michigan with the 55 MPH speed limit and stay off the freeways, when I want to ride the Black Hills, or Blueridge Parkway, I trailer the rig and do day rides where I want to. As far as durability is concerned the guys on the Ural forum, say getting a used Ural that has been "well sorted" is the way to go. With mine the previous owner, had the engine rebuilt when the oil pump shaft broke, and the entire valve train components replaced when some part of it failed due to not being properly heat treated. They say that when the importer in Washington state, takes care of the problems covered by warrantee, the engine will be better than new, better bearings, better components, and better balance. Ural does need more maintenance than most modern bikes, carbs need to be balanced, valves adjusted, fluids in engine, trans, and final drive need to be changed, ujoints, and splines need to be greased. Wheels have spokes and need to be trued once in a while. On my 13 the front brake is a disk, rear bike and sidecar brakes are mechanical drum brakes and need adjustment. Up to 2014 when they went to fuel injection, and disk brakes all the way around, you won't find any computers, and all of the repair and maintenance was basic stuff, and fun to do, if you are into getting your hands dirty. To sum it up, for me, my Ural is the most "fun" bike I have ever had, it always draws questions and a crowd, most think that it is some antique bike. It helps that I have a great dealer close to me and that is a important part of your decision, unless you are capable of doing your own work on it. Parts always seem to be available, advice and help, and repair videos are on the Soviet Steeds forum, by the way it is a great forum for information you need to make your decision, lots of pro and con info. Good luck.
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CCjon
Posted 7/13/2016 3:37 PM (#89857 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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Some riders hate a particular brand of rig and never have a good word to say about them. Have heard negative words about ---------- (insert any brand you can think of here).

Then there are riders who love the brand that another hates. Life is too short to be bad mouthing a particular brand that others love. Just ride what you like, enjoy your experience and let others enjoy theirs.

At the national rally in Colorado there were rigs of all types, brands and configurations. But not one rig there could do everything great. Some excelled at interstate cruising, others for off-road exploring, still others for taking man's best friend for a ride in the country. Most important to me was, every rider there loved their rig and what it could do. Their rig did what they asked it to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

The USCA's strength is our helping and supporting each other, no matter what brand they ride.
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Alan_Hepburn
Posted 7/13/2016 4:01 PM (#89858 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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I am a sidecar owner - have had both a Ural and "other". In 2011 we bought a 2006 Tourist that only had 4210 km on the odometer. From 2011 to 2016 we ran the odometer up to 15K km - other than regular maintenance the only things that needed fixing were a flat pusher tire, and an intermittent ignition wire under the gas tank. My wife and I rode it in parades, on PGR missions, and other fun stuff. Being an older model the top speed was listed as 65 mph - although I did have it up to 73 mph (per the GPS) once. It would happily run at 55 mph all day long, but at 60 or more it was pretty much maxed out and it was a handful to drive. But it was a fun ride - pull in to a parking lot filled with millions of dollars worth of Harleys and EVERYBODY wants to see the lowly Ural - it's a crowd gatherer! The only reason we don't still have it is the speed limitation - we wanted to be able to keep up with our riding friends and be more comfortable on the freeway so we sold the Ural and bought an older Goldwing - a 1994 GL1500SE with a California Sidecar, with 65K miles on the odometer. Now we can cruise down the interstate at a comfortable 70 mph with enough engine left for evasive action if needed - but with the sidecar we still draw a crowd in parking lots!
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slapping_rabbits
Posted 7/13/2016 8:35 PM (#89860 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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So on my way back from a work meeting in DC, I stopped by a bmw place. They put hannigan sidecars on their bmws and they finance them. Of course, these bmws are rather expensive. The 1200 gs feels like the right size and the upright position with the ability to stand does feel good. I tried the r nine t and that felt a bit small. It is nice that they are only an hour away from where I live. Any thoughts on the hannigan sidecars? The dual sport one looks okay, but not like one of the ural or dmc ones that look more rugged. I'm also very concerned with a bike that costs more than my car.
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Al Olme
Posted 7/13/2016 10:42 PM (#89862 - in reply to #89860)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Near D.C.... was that Bob's BMW? If so, Bob is a sidecar driver and knows his stuff.
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slapping_rabbits
Posted 7/14/2016 7:59 AM (#89863 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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Yep, that was the place. They were very nice there and they do test rides, but the prices were pretty high. Well, that's bmw I guess. It also makes me wonder what my maintenance costs will be relative to a japanese company or triumph or ural?
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Al Olme
Posted 7/14/2016 9:48 AM (#89865 - in reply to #89863)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Bob's BMW is a premium price for premium service sort of place but certainly worth it. If you go with a new BMW your maintenance will be higher compared to most others. If you go with a used BMW you may still pay a little more but not much. Excellent used BMW rigs are out there if you are patient. Remember, your maintenance will be higher on any sidecar rig than it is on a solo bike. Bearings wear faster, tires wear faster because of the loads that we place on them and for which they were not originally engineered.

It's been said here before... Buy a used rig, maybe even an old Goldwing rig, run it until you are confident that sidecars are your passion and then trade up. Shallow or not, you will be happy in the long run.
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jaydmc
Posted 7/14/2016 10:11 AM (#89866 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Bob's BMW is also set up as a dealer for our products and could put one of our sidecars on for you. We do have mounts of course for the GS having built over 1000 GS's We also have mounts for the N9T and others.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
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SwampFox
Posted 7/15/2016 8:05 AM (#89871 - in reply to #89865)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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Al Olme - 7/14/2016 9:48 AM

... Excellent used BMW rigs are out there if you are patient....

and are willing to travel or ship.  For example -R1200GS w/Hannigan Dual Sport sidecar: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/mcy/5613264126.html


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slapping_rabbits
Posted 7/18/2016 1:58 PM (#89925 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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very nice. that sidecar looks huge!
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redsimp
Posted 7/19/2016 12:22 PM (#89953 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby -
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000

Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.

in answer to the original post - I ruled out a Ural for 2 reasons - I think they want way too much for the old used ones. And the reliability factor. This is from 2012, but worth a read -
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/why-you-should-not-buy-a-ural...
I see a lot of Urals for sale with very low miles & I wonder - why? A 2005 w/ 68 miles on it? A 2006
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redsimp
Posted 7/19/2016 12:27 PM (#89955 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby - what do ya'll think ?

1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000

Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.

in answer to the original post - I ruled out a Ural for 2 reasons - I think they want way too much for the old used ones. And the reliability factor. This is from 2012, but worth a read -

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/why-you-should-not-buy-a-ural...

I see a lot of Urals for sale with very low miles & I wonder - why? A 2005 w/ 68 miles on it? A 2006 w/ 1000 ? Something's not right. If they are so much fun and so reliable - why not 35K, 47K ?
I appreciate the input I got on my other post here - helped me make up my mind.
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jaydmc
Posted 7/19/2016 12:38 PM (#89956 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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I would never consider putting a Velorex on an 1100 Suzuki. While I have never owned a Hannigan sidecar, I have owned several GL1500's with sidecars, they make a great sidecar bike.
Lots of posts on ADV rider on the Ural, in essence a Ural is a band new antique, While reliability is way up from where they started the are still not 100% reliable. They are a great bike if you understand what it is and that is what you want. What it is, is a great secondary roads "antique" that you do have to do more maintenance on then you would a modern bike, if you like tinkering and riding back roads it might be the bike for you. If on the other hand you want to put gas in it and ride across the country there are many far more suited bikes to do this on. One theory I have as to why there are so many used Ural rigs around is that they supply a complete ready to go sidecar bike that you can finance easily. I suspect that if you could not finance a Ural new that there would be far fewer on the road. When buying a new bike it is usually possible to finance a sidecar with it but most people do not know that.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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VLAD
Posted 7/19/2016 1:28 PM (#89957 - in reply to #89955)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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redsimp - 7/19/2016 10:27 AM

I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby - what do ya'll think ?

1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000

Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.

.


Ask yourself what are you planing to do with your sidecar rig?
Suzuki not a lot different in size & weight from Goldwing without bags. Wing is lot more comfortable on the road but will be no good on the dirt.
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redsimp
Posted 7/19/2016 1:56 PM (#89958 - in reply to #89956)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Jay - Time is in short supply for me - tinkering and maintaining and repairing on my ride - not my glass of beer. I like to ride 400-500 miles a day on my
RSV when I'm traveling - more if I'm solo. I have no intention to trash Urals - I understand what they are and I came to the conclusion they are not for me. I was wondering out loud why the MILEAGE is so low on the used Urals I have found. I am suspicious if a bike doesn't get at least 1000 miles a year.

Why not a Velorex on a 1100 Suzuki? I see sidecars on smaller bikes, the Ural is only a 750. I appreciate your info - this is all new to me. Pardon the phasing - a "crash" course as it were, in Sidecars 101.
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Alan_Hepburn
Posted 7/19/2016 2:13 PM (#89959 - in reply to #89958)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Location: San Jose, Ca, USA
...I see sidecars on smaller bikes, the Ural is only a 750.


The Ural is a 750 cc, that generates around 41 hp. Up until 2014 when they went to an EFI system the top speed was listed as 65mph, and it struggled to maintain that! It would cruise all day at 50mph, but asking any more from it was a lesson in patience. We absolutely loved our 2006 Ural, but it did have limitations, which is why we now have a 1994 GL1500SE with a sidecar!
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jaydmc
Posted 7/19/2016 2:13 PM (#89960 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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The Velorex sidecar was designed for 350cc bikes, the importer seems to find safety of lesser importance then sales, in fact one of their dealers has even mounted one on an 1800cc Goldwing and this was before they came up with their "heavier" duty versions. The frame, suspension and especially the mounts really are not up to a bike this large. Safety must always come first. Larger bikes require stronger frames, heavier duty suspension with stiffer shocks and mounts that do not slip. This link will give you some idea as to the issues with the stock Velorex mounts http://www.dmcsidecars.com/the-result-of-improper-sidecar-mounting-...
If a sidecar is not heavy enough it will lift far to easy on right hand turns, some lighter sidecars such as our Kenna, classic and M72B are to light for heavier bikes for instance we often use our Kenna single on the GL1500's and GL1800s' while this sidecar is to light for this heavy of a bike it is very stout and as such strong enough to take ballast and has a heavy enough shock / spring assemble for a bike this heavy. And as we almost never use "universal" type mounts and of course never have a lower rear that is prone to slip we can get away with these lighter sidecars on heavier bikes. The Velorex does not use a proper lower rear mount, its springs / shocks are to light and the "universal" mounts are prone to slip.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
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redsimp
Posted 7/19/2016 2:15 PM (#89961 - in reply to #89957)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Posts: 36
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VLAD - 7/19/2016 1:28 PM
Ask yourself what are you planing to do with your sidecar rig?
Suzuki not a lot different in size & weight from Goldwing without bags. Wing is lot more comfortable on the road but will be no good on the dirt.


What do I want to do with it? Right now?
#1 Learn to ride a sidecar rig (opps - DRIVE)
#2 See if I like having a sidecar for traveling.
#3 Be able to take the dog with me when the wife has to work & carry more & larger crap when I go to Home Depot.
#4 Gain experience & knowledge before buying a new sidecar
#5 Be able to continue DRIVING a rig on into my decrepit years.
#6 No real dirt/backwoods/ wilderness riding - I got a 4X4 truck for that.

I want a trainer, an older bike to learn on for now. Just like I started on Harley Hummer back when I had all my hair and moved up the power/wt. curve.
I want a bike I can resell and not take a big loss on. Assuming I survive #1-5 above.

On that last note - how do they value these rigs? I look at the Kelley BB price on a '94 Wing and it's $2390 - $4180. A 2000 Astro 2+2 is $1100 - $1700. Add them up and you get a low of $3500 and a high retail of $5880. Other similar rigs are asking WAY above that. Am I missing something?
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jaydmc
Posted 7/19/2016 2:22 PM (#89962 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Kelly blue book realistic values on bikes are often a bit low and always way off for sidecars. I assume what they do is take original price and then they have some kind of depreciation table that they use to calculate current value. This sucks if you are looking to finance or have a total loss that insurance needs to figure the value for but it is what they do. They also do not take into account any options that can add significantly to the price of a sidecar, this includes things like paint, steering modifications to the bike, automotive wheels electric trim and much more. At least they are willing to list sidecars. One up side is that some states (Washington where I live) use their values to figure sales tax. This can also suck, not long ago I purchased a KLR for $1700 less then Kelly blue book said it should sell for. I had cash, the seller was motivated Washington state still charged me $1700 more value for sales tax then what I truly paid for it.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
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redsimp
Posted 7/19/2016 2:27 PM (#89963 - in reply to #89960)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Posts: 36
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Again - thanks. Much good info. Basically the Velorex is too light for an 1100. And it would make a lousy trainer. I'd be likely to fly the chair, being that I'm a novice, and possibly bring an end to ALL my motorcycling days.
I see the Velorex cars are sold w/ "universal" mounts - which my experience generally means it fits all applications equally poorly.
Good to know - this why I dove in here.
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redsimp
Posted 7/19/2016 2:33 PM (#89964 - in reply to #89962)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Posts: 36
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So $6200 for a '94 Wing with the Astro 2+2 is not a bad price then? Even with a non -functioning radio & some running lights out? I could learn on it for a year or 2 and sell it for about the same $$, ya think? I thought the size of the car might too much for a beginner hack driver.




(Wing94.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Wing94.jpg (49KB - 1 downloads)
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Big Tom
Posted 7/19/2016 2:35 PM (#89965 - in reply to #89953)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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redsimp - 7/19/2016 9:22 AM

I am also looking at used rigs to test out the sidecar thing. I found 2 nearby -
1. 1994 1500 Goldwing w/ 105K miles & and Astro 2+2 sidecar asking $6200. Radio doesn't work & a couple other minor lights out.
2. 1984 Suzuki GS1100 w/ a 562 Velorex sidecar 35K miles asking $4000

Advice requested - Which is better suited for a total novice sidecar driver? I have several 100K on 2 wheels - 0 on 3 wheels. The Wing rig looks HUGE, but I worry about the age of the "Zuki.



redsimp. That seems a bit high for a '94 Gold wing SC Rig. What has it got done to it? A 1500 GW will go a lot further than 105K.

Your location also has a lot to do with price. I just picked up a 2000 GW with Color Matched Champion Escort. It has E-Z Steer and electric lean. Everything works even the Cassett player and the CB radio. Bike had 22,500 miles on it when I test rode it. I'm up to 22,900 now. $8500
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Al Olme
Posted 7/19/2016 2:43 PM (#89966 - in reply to #89963)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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redsimp said,"Other similar rigs are asking WAY above that. Am I missing something? "

One thing that is seldom taken into account is the cost of actually mounting the sidecar. This can range from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. If you have a full EML conversion you could easily spend $4,000 on the conversion and mounting after the cost of the kit.

Also, consider the idea that most sidecars change only marginally during their product life [which can be several decades]. There is very little difference between a Ural sidecar built in 1978 and a brand new one and this is true for most production sidecars. The only items that actually wear out on a typical sidecar are the tires, wheel bearings and shocks..Aside from a fresh paint job, you can make most sidecars "new again" for less than $300. The age of most sidecars is moot, the issue is their condition and the availability of spares.
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VLAD
Posted 7/19/2016 4:06 PM (#89969 - in reply to #89965)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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If someone asking $6200 you do not have to pay$6200.
You can try to buy it for less. And if not this bike it will be another...
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VLAD
Posted 7/19/2016 4:11 PM (#89970 - in reply to #89961)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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redsimp - 7/19/2016 12:15 PM

What do I want to do with it? Right now?
#1 Learn to ride a sidecar rig (opps - DRIVE)
#2 See if I like having a sidecar for traveling.
#3 Be able to take the dog with me when the wife has to work & carry more & larger crap when I go to Home Depot.
#4 Gain experience & knowledge before buying a new sidecar
#5 Be able to continue DRIVING a rig on into my decrepit years.
#6 No real dirt/backwoods/ wilderness riding - I got a 4X4 truck for that.




Any sidecar will be good for you on any bike. Wing has wider heavier sidecar will be little better for right turns.
Velorex lighter and like to fly.
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redsimp
Posted 7/19/2016 4:55 PM (#89972 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Solid advice, all. Big Tom - the Wing has the EZ steer and " electric trim" and integrated brake. And I know it still has life left - mileage not a big concern on that bike. Sounds like you got a good deal. I was thinking $5800 would be hard to walk away from, but I've only seen pics.
Al - installation is a factor I hadn't really considered, but makes sense. Delivery & shipping, too add to the total for the car. But there also doesn't seem to be HUGE demand - some of these rigs sit for months, so you think they might be a bit lower. And fiberglass does age & become more brittle over time, electric connections get corroded ~ I would think age of the car would be a consideration, if not a major factor.
Vlad - I know all about dickering and being able to walk away. I'm not sure "lighter and like to fly" are advantages to me at this point!
Thanks - didn't mean to hijack the thread (apologies to "slapping rabbits" but truly appreciate the honest input. It's a big step and I don't know anyone local who has a sidecar.
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OldSchool_IsCool
Posted 7/19/2016 6:52 PM (#89973 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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Actually, a big (as in wide) car is easier for the beginner as it's less likely to tip on right turns. You will have a bit more push and pull on acceleration and deceleration but with the EZSteer and adjustable lean, you shouldn't have much trouble at all.

Edited by OldSchool_IsCool 7/19/2016 6:57 PM
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JohnnyD
Posted 10/15/2017 11:21 PM (#95393 - in reply to #89961)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?


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Posts: 7
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redsimp - 7/19/2016 2:15 PM

VLAD - 7/19/2016 1:28 PM
Ask yourself what are you planing to do with your sidecar rig?
Suzuki not a lot different in size & weight from Goldwing without bags. Wing is lot more comfortable on the road but will be no good on the dirt.


What do I want to do with it? Right now?
#1 Learn to ride a sidecar rig (opps - DRIVE)
#2 See if I like having a sidecar for traveling.
#3 Be able to take the dog with me when the wife has to work & carry more & larger crap when I go to Home Depot.
#4 Gain experience & knowledge before buying a new sidecar
#5 Be able to continue DRIVING a rig on into my decrepit years.
#6 No real dirt/backwoods/ wilderness riding - I got a 4X4 truck for that.

I want a trainer, an older bike to learn on for now. Just like I started on Harley Hummer back when I had all my hair and moved up the power/wt. curve.
I want a bike I can resell and not take a big loss on. Assuming I survive #1-5 above.

On that last note - how do they value these rigs? I look at the Kelley BB price on a '94 Wing and it's $2390 - $4180. A 2000 Astro 2+2 is $1100 - $1700. Add them up and you get a low of $3500 and a high retail of $5880. Other similar rigs are asking WAY above that. Am I missing something?


Did you upgrade the truck parts and mod your 4x4?

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Reardan Tom
Posted 10/16/2017 10:06 AM (#95394 - in reply to #89962)
Subject: Re: new ural or new hack?



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jaydmc - 7/19/2016 11:22 AM

One up side is that some states (Washington where I live) use their values to figure sales tax. This can also suck, not long ago I purchased a KLR for $1700 less then Kelly blue book said it should sell for. I had cash, the seller was motivated Washington state still charged me $1700 more value for sales tax then what I truly paid for it.
Jay G


Jay, similar situation has happened to me in the past. Gets my goat that the state charges more than what's honestly owed and the bureaucrat behind the counter seems to think one is lying about the price. Even with proper documentation.
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4 Paws
Posted 10/21/2017 3:25 PM (#95443 - in reply to #89806)
Subject: RE: new ural or new hack?


0
Location: Fancy Gap VA, mm 199 Blue Ridge Parkway
I had a 2012 Ural Retro for five mostly trouble free years and sold it this summer for a Triumph that I added a Watsonian sidecar to.
I was one of the lucky ones, many Ural are trouble prone and most dealers carry them as a sideline so service is a crapshoot. The Ural forum is full of threads from new owners of brand new bikes with consistent issues.
My Triumph rig built was about the same price as a new Ural but is, in my opinion, far superior.

Keep an eye on the “Flebay” thread in the hacks section of ADVrider for a line on a reasonably priced used rig.
Even a used Ural that’s broken in might be better than a new one. After riding another brand rig I honestly don’t think I could return to a Ural. Modern engineering and quality control contribute greatly to customer satisfaction.
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VLAD
Posted 10/23/2017 11:10 AM (#95451 - in reply to #95443)
Subject: RE: new ural or new hack?



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4 Paws - 10/21/2017 1:25 PM

I had a 2012 Ural Retro for five mostly trouble free years and sold it this summer for a Triumph that I added a Watsonian sidecar to.
I was one of the lucky ones, many Ural are trouble prone and most dealers carry them as a sideline so service is a crapshoot. The Ural forum is full of threads from new owners of brand new bikes with consistent issues.
My Triumph rig built was about the same price as a new Ural but is, in my opinion, far superior.

Keep an eye on the “Flebay” thread in the hacks section of ADVrider for a line on a reasonably priced used rig.
Even a used Ural that’s broken in might be better than a new one. After riding another brand rig I honestly don’t think I could return to a Ural. Modern engineering and quality control contribute greatly to customer satisfaction.


How many miles or kilometers did you have on 2012 Ural Retro?
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