tires
camdon44
Posted 10/20/2016 2:16 PM (#91156)
Subject: tires


Member

Posts: 6
0
Hi All, I'm new to the site and forum. I did not research prior threads so excuse my ignorance... I have a Honda GL 500 with a Velorex sidecar. I want to get some opinions on what new tires I should go with.

Thanks, Don



(Honda sidecar.jpg)



(Honda sidecar 4.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Honda sidecar.jpg (47KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments Honda sidecar 4.jpg (44KB - 0 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
CCjon
Posted 10/20/2016 2:58 PM (#91157 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 328
10010010025
Location: NWHouston
Don, welcome aboard, all questions are welcome here.

A little more information would be helpful.

What size tires are you running now?

Looking to go darkside? or stay with MC tires?

Want something for strictly pavement or some off road too?





Top of the page Bottom of the page
Al Olme
Posted 10/20/2016 3:42 PM (#91158 - in reply to #91157)
Subject: Re: tires


Expert

Posts: 1736
100050010010025
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
According to the CCJon to English dictionary...

Going "dark side" means using automotive tires [with their more square tread profile that does not run up the side walls] instead of using tires designed for motorcycles with their round profile tread.

This is a common alternative for sidecar folks and will not void your warranty since you already voided it by attaching a sidecar. In general, automotive tires last longer and are cheaper than motorcycle tire when used on sidecar rigs.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
camdon44
Posted 10/21/2016 9:42 AM (#91163 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires


Member

Posts: 6
0
Hi Guys,

The front on the bike is a 2.15-19, and the rear is 130/90-16. I don't know the sidecar size, but i'm sure it's the stock Velorex tire. Since I will never unmount the sidecar, maybe the car tires would work better? It is not a heavy rig, and not built for speed, so on the other hand the motorcycle tires work fine. Let me know your thoughts on each...

Thanks, Don
Top of the page Bottom of the page
camdon44
Posted 10/21/2016 9:52 AM (#91164 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires


Member

Posts: 6
0
Oh, I don't have to worry about warranty as the bike is 35 years old...LOL.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Hack'n
Posted 10/21/2016 1:07 PM (#91167 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Expert

Posts: 4833
2000200050010010010025
Location: Boise, Idaho
It's hard to beat the OEM 3.50x16" Mitas tire the Velorex uses for longevity. The 4 ply sidecar tire has very good resistance to side pressure that is inherent with sidecars' $120. from Velorex, USA.

Lonnie
NWSC
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DRONE
Posted 10/25/2016 2:27 PM (#91209 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Veteran

Posts: 238
10010025
Location: Tacoma, WA, USA
Don--when you say the front is 2.15x19, that's the size of the rim, right? And is it tubeless? Based on a "yes" to both those questions, you should be able to fit any modern 100/90-19 tire on there, and if the fender has enough clearance you can use a 110/90-19. Revzilla list 27 "touring" tires in 100/90-19 including the Dunlop D404 and Avon AM26, both of which are good sturdy bias-ply tires, and the Metzeler ME888 which is just a really good tire. In the 110 size, Revzilla shows 15 touring tires including the Dunlop 404 and Metzeler ME888, as well as the Bridgestone Exedra bias-ply.

I'm pretty sure your rear rim is 2.50x16. I think the 130/90-16 is about as wide a tire as you can fit on that rim. Revzilla (again) shows a bunch of cruiser/touring tires including the bias-ply D404, the ME888, and the Michelin Commander II which is a real decent tire.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DirtyDR
Posted 10/25/2016 3:28 PM (#91211 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Veteran

Posts: 254
1001002525
Location: Edwards, CO
I have had really good luck with the Metzler ME888 tire on the front of my GS in that same 19" size and they also make it in the rear size for you. They are made as a big cruiser tire so they would be way overrated as far as load bearing for your rig but that is a good thing. The ME888 come in radial or bias and should not be a problem with the Comstar mags you have.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
camdon44
Posted 10/25/2016 4:01 PM (#91213 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires


Member

Posts: 6
0
Will I be able to fit car tires on the bike and sidecar???
Top of the page Bottom of the page
CCjon
Posted 10/25/2016 4:33 PM (#91214 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 328
10010010025
Location: NWHouston
The Tire Rack offers three different tires that will fit on the rear of your bike.

Here is the link. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?zip-code=&w...

 Don't be put off by the 'donut' tires, I run one on the rear of my KLR650 rig. A lightweight bike like yours can get 5-6000 miles out of a donut tire. If you want to do more off-road exploring, then a knobby MC tire is best.

 

 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DRONE
Posted 10/26/2016 12:09 PM (#91218 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Veteran

Posts: 238
10010025
Location: Tacoma, WA, USA
Car tires on your rig? Front--no. Not on a skinny 19-inch rim. Rear--you can buy a temporary spare like CCjon suggests, but why? An ME888 is safer and will outlast it. Sidecar--I don't know what size is your rim, but if Lonnie is right that a 3.50x16 fits, then again the question is why? The only thing that might fit would be some kind of temporary spare tire, while there are any number of excellent moto tires that will give you better performance, safety, and longevity.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Al Olme
Posted 10/26/2016 5:20 PM (#91222 - in reply to #91218)
Subject: Re: tires


Expert

Posts: 1736
100050010010025
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Ned,

You speak with absolute authority. Have you ever tried the compact spares? I'm not challenging you, just asking if this is based on theory or experience. Also, you post here a lot but your profile doesn't tell us much, how about filling us in? Thanks!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Reardan Tom
Posted 10/27/2016 8:28 AM (#91227 - in reply to #91222)
Subject: Re: tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1164
10001002525
Location: Reardan, WA
Al Olme - 10/26/2016 2:20 PM

Ned,

You speak with absolute authority. Have you ever tried the compact spares? I'm not challenging you, just asking if this is based on theory or experience. Also, you post here a lot but your profile doesn't tell us much, how about filling us in? Thanks!


Al, you could get to know a bit more about Ned aka Drone in the Sit, Stay, Ride the story of America's sidecar dogs video. He's a friend and a good guy.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Al Olme
Posted 10/27/2016 10:14 AM (#91229 - in reply to #91227)
Subject: Re: tires


Expert

Posts: 1736
100050010010025
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
I'd just like to know more about someone who seems to have so much information and posts so often. 'Pretty sure the "good guy" status is a given based on his participation here.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Reardan Tom
Posted 10/27/2016 11:29 AM (#91233 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1164
10001002525
Location: Reardan, WA
It's actually based on a friendship that began at the Bigfoot sidecar rally at the Toad Rock campground in August 2013. (See the Sept. '13 issue of the Sidecarist.) Then we were both asked to be part of the Sit Stay Ride video and because of that our paths have crossed more times and we've corresponded via e-mail. And Petey and Kirby are friends. If your dog likes the other guy's dog, that's an indication he must be a good guy. lol... There are people on here who I feel are friends though we've never met personally. Ned is not one of those people. Sven is. We've e-mailed many times over the years off the forum here. Just one example of that kind of friendship. I've actually sat many times eye ball to eye ball with Ned and had conversations that weren't reliant on a keyboard.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Reardan Tom
Posted 10/27/2016 11:34 AM (#91234 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1164
10001002525
Location: Reardan, WA
Another example of a friendship not based solely on the forum but eye to eye shared experiences in the real world and visits to each other's homes would be Lonnie Cook. He also posts with authority here frequently.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DRONE
Posted 10/27/2016 8:02 PM (#91244 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Veteran

Posts: 238
10010025
Location: Tacoma, WA, USA

Al--my opinion about temporary spare tires ["donuts"] is not based on theory or experience. Theories are nice, but I prefer facts. And experience is nice, but since I know the facts I've chosen to never use a donut tire, so I have no experience.

Some of the facts about donuts--

1. they are designed to be used at 60 psi cold so, if you use a donut, you need to carry a pretty powerful portable compressor on your rig along with your tire patch kit. I, personally, don't like the hard ride you get at 60 psi. I prefer to run my rear tires in the 30-40 psi range.

2. they are rated to safely handle speeds up to 50 mph (though NHTSA testing requires them to not fail at 85 mph) which is well below the safe speed limits of most modern moto tires. The ME888 Rear and the D404 I mentioned above, for instance, both have a speed limit of 130 mph, while the AM26 is rated at 149 mph. I would rather run my tires at speeds BELOW their rated speed rating rather than ABOVE.

3. a temporary spare in the size the OP needs (130/90-16) is designed to pass the NHTSA bead unseating resistance test on a rim that's 4" to 4.5" wide. The OP's rim is 2.5". So, not only is the rim too narrow, but it's a motorcycle bead profile. On a motorcycle rim, the distance between the bead flange and the bead hump (where the tire actually gets seated) is narrower than on a car rim. Because of that, every time we go darkside using a moto rim the tire will never completely get seated properly. Not a terribly big deal most of the time, as long as we are using a moto rim of the correct width (he would not be), and we don't use a ton of inflation (he would be), then we can be fairly sure the bead is not going to have a catastrophic unseating on a 50-mph right hand sweeper when we suddenly discover it has a decreasing radius! LOL! After all, it's only MY LIFE on the line. No big stakes at all.

4. the best, high quality donuts start out with a tread depth of 5/32". I don't know about you, but when the car pusher on my rig starts to get down to 5/32nds, I'm thinking it's just about time to replace it. 3/32nds is about as thin as I go.

5. donuts do not undergo UTQG testing so if I were to mount one, I'd still have no idea what kind of brake traction or lateral traction it will give me.

Now, CCjon runs donuts on his KLR rig and presumably has never had a problem. That's fine. But does that mean it's safe? Do you remember those Firestone tires from a few years back that killed all those people driving Ford Explorers? 240 deaths and 3000 injured. Massive recall almost bankrupted Firestone. Yet, it's estimated that only 1 in every 5000 of the 15-inch tires sold by Firestone to Ford ultimately failed. So, can you run a donut on your rig? Sure? And is it likely that the donut will fail? No. But if I can get better traction, longer life, higher speed ratings, and a properly seated bead from a nice fresh Metzeler or Dunlop, I'm at a loss for why I'd choose a donut instead.

 

By the way, I run car tires on my GS rig [rear and side] but they are mounted on wide car rims. Here's a pretty decent pic of those two tires from last summer.  This was on my way back from the 2016 Rigs in the Rockies Rally.


Top of the page Bottom of the page
CCjon
Posted 10/28/2016 12:31 AM (#91248 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 328
10010010025
Location: NWHouston
Not sure how we got so far off from the OP's original question about tires for a Honda GL500. The GL500 is a 50 HP motorcycle with a Velorex sidecar. Which means he is not doing much if any interstate cruising with that rig. What would be a good tire for sedate around town riding?

The 40HP KLR650 is closer in similarity to his rig than the 100+ HP BMW adventure rig.

Without getting into custom wheels to run auto tires, wheels which could cost more than his whole rig, his options are a motorcycle tire or a donut auto tire. We don't know what type of riding he wants to do. What does he mean by good? Good on pavement? off road? Long lasting? Durability, Cost? what? We don't know, am guessing he is just wants to hear tire suggestions from other owners of similar rigs.

Are donut tires on the rear an option for him? Sure. So are Heidenau, Avon, Kenda or Metzler. Depends on his budget and the type of riding he wants to do.

Seems donut tires are as controversial today as going Darkside with auto tires on ANY motorcycle was ten - fifteen years ago. But we've learned a lot in the last decade. We keep pushing the envelope, learning, finding what works, what doesn't and what the limitations are. How did we find out that auto tires work great on the stock Goldwing 1500 rim but not on the Goldwing 1200 rim? Trial and error.

Why do we buy expensive custom wheels to run auto tires on adventure rigs? Because auto tires are more available world wide, auto tires cost less than MC tires and auto tires last longer than MC tires. That alone can justify the expense. But if you are not going into remote regions of the plant, why? Are they safer than MC tires? Depends on who you talk to. Anti-darksiders don't think so.

Do donut tires have limitation? Sure! I would never put one on a 100 HP BMW GS rig. The heavier more powerful faster BMW needs a stronger tire. But on a 40 - 50 HP rig, they work fine. Forget the donut instructions that were written for automobile use. You don't run 60 psi in a donut tire on a lightweight rig, The stiff sidewalls will support the rig's weight at even 20 psi, I run 38-40 psi.

We aren't running 65 - 80 interstate miles per hour either. We're cruising Ural speed, 50 - 55. We are not overheating the tires with our lighter weight and slower speeds. We're not taking tight turns or curves at highway speed so side stresses are not an issue. Again, think Ural speed.

Lack of tire depth? You are right, I wish donut tires had more tread depth but they don't and it is the only auto tire available in the US that will fit a KLR650 or the GL500. But if I can get 6000+ miles out of the lower priced donut than the 3000 miles out of a more expensive MC tires, then I'll stick with the donut. I barely got 2000 miles out the factory KLR tire.

While I ran auto tires for thousands of miles on the Goldwing rig, this is my first experience with a donut tire on the KLR. So far have no reason to think it was not a good move. Am very pleased with the performance. handling and durability. Is that opinion set in stone? Check back with me when it's time to buy a new rear tire.

Every rider is different, every rig is different. In the end you decide which tire is right for you. Then ride it. In the meanwhile, Don, you're smart to continue gathering information and opinions on what others are doing.

Ride safe and far

CCjon

 NOTE: We are only talking about an auto tire on the rear, not on the front of the motorcycle.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Al Olme
Posted 10/28/2016 10:29 AM (#91251 - in reply to #91244)
Subject: Re: tires


Expert

Posts: 1736
100050010010025
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Drone,

Now that makes a lot more sense to me. The "why" behind your statements is so much more powerful than just saying they won't work adds meat to the bones. I know that folks do all sorts of things that are not best practices but work for them anyway. The kind of background you present here builds a strong case for your statement. Thanks!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DRONE
Posted 11/2/2016 3:18 PM (#91321 - in reply to #91156)
Subject: Re: tires



Veteran

Posts: 238
10010025
Location: Tacoma, WA, USA
CCjon--well said, sir. I understand your decision. Did you drive that donut to Hotchkiss?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
VLAD
Posted 11/2/2016 3:45 PM (#91324 - in reply to #91163)
Subject: Re: tires



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 411
100100100100
Location: DENVER, COLORADO
I use Avon Sidecar Triple Duty MK II 3.50-19 Tire on front GS850/Velorex and 130/80-16 on the rear. Use rear wheel from GS650.
Top of the page Bottom of the page