trailer hitch
Bone
Posted 10/1/2017 4:29 PM (#95256)
Subject: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
Does anyone know who makes a good hitch for the gl1500 with a Ca. side car, friendship 3. One that puts the trailer in the center of the rig not just behind the bike ?
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cycleman
Posted 10/6/2017 7:10 PM (#95304 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch


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The hitch is mounted on the inside ( between the bike & the car ) lower frame rail of the sidecar. I know on mine it already has the receiver portion for a trailer built in and it is just part of the lower frame rail of the sidecar frame that comes out the rear of the sidecar. This stuff will likely be car specific and if you know a welder, that would likely be the best way to go, as he or she could likely add a receiver. I doubt you will find one that is an aftermarket add on, as these are normally sidecar specific and usually an option, as it is built in before the car body goes on. You might want to check the hack section of advrider, lots of stuff on that site.
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ocpd44
Posted 10/7/2017 12:32 AM (#95309 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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You may want to reconsider. Hannigan discussed this with me when I ordered my sidecar and strongly suggested I keep my trailer hitch directly behind the driveline. I'm hauling a Kwik Kamp tent trailer that grosses 500 lbs. and that much weight off center with a sidecar? I don't think so. I told him I had already decided to keep the hitch behind the driveline and deal with the few inches of extra width. M2CYMMV......
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Bone
Posted 10/8/2017 10:43 PM (#95313 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Location: SW Washington state
Thanks for getting back to me you guys. Hey ocpd44 . Loaded up my kwik Kamp weighs about the same as yours. I have a question for you.... Seems to me that if you position the trailer off the back end of the motorcycle then it is off center.... if it is positioned inbetween the motorcycle and the car then it it is centered ???? or is this something I am not understanding ??
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ocpd44
Posted 10/9/2017 12:21 AM (#95315 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Bone,

The trailer should be in line with the drivetrain. The sidecar already puts off-center inertia on the rig. If you move the trailer out of the line of the drivetrain, you are adding more weight to that inertia. That means when you stop or start, there will be more of a tendency for the rig to swing left or right respectively. Keeping the trailer in line with the drivetrain eliminates the added off-center inertia (the inertia is still there, just in-line where it is easier to control).

The downside to keeping the trailer directly behind the bike is that the entire rig may be a few inches wider. I don't see this as as much of a problem as trying to control the added off-center inertia. There are some on the forum that have a preference for the off-center due to the width but no one can argue the laws of physics.

Does this make sense?

Jeff
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Bone
Posted 10/9/2017 9:40 AM (#95320 - in reply to #95315)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
ocpd44 - 10/8/2017 9:21 PM

Bone,

The trailer should be in line with the drivetrain. The sidecar already puts off-center inertia on the rig. If you move the trailer out of the line of the drivetrain, you are adding more weight to that inertia. That means when you stop or start, there will be more of a tendency for the rig to swing left or right respectively. Keeping the trailer in line with the drivetrain eliminates the added off-center inertia (the inertia is still there, just in-line where it is easier to control).

The downside to keeping the trailer directly behind the bike is that the entire rig may be a few inches wider. I don't see this as as much of a problem as trying to control the added off-center inertia. There are some on the forum that have a preference for the off-center due to the width but no one can argue the laws of physics.

Does this make sense?

Jeff


Yes sir that makes sense...... But, "there's always a but, eh!" Here is my problem. First off I have been pulling my kwik kamp with my gl1800 "two wheeler" with no problems. I recently bought a new to me gl1500 with a CSC friendship 3 tub. This is my 3rd rig. It is very wide. Now for the problems. I live out in the boonies in the foot hills to Mt. St. Helens. My drive way is 1/3 mile long and basalt bed rock and loose gravel and very narrow, as in just wide enough to get the rig down and just wide enough with a little to spare to pull the Kwik Kamp up the drive way with the 1800. So, if I add the kwik Kamp behind the gl1500 I don't think I can make it in or out of the drive way. The second problem is that the over head door into my 30x48 foot shop will not be wide enough to get the rig into with the trailer directly behind the bike. And the entrance to the shop door is up a steep gravel incline and I need to keep moving to make it through the door or stall out in the gravel. This gives me no chance to kind of idle in and make sure I have lined up properly if the door would even be wide enough. This means I would have to un-hook the trailer in my yard and hook it to my 4x4 and then back it up hill into the garage. Ever try backing a trailer you can't even see in your mirrors. So it would seem I am inbetween a rock and a hard place.
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lwcollmann
Posted 10/9/2017 9:50 AM (#95321 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: RE: trailer hitch


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Location: Hopkinton Ia 52237
I would say do what pits your problems. I puled 3 different campers off the center of my Moto guzzi sidecar rig for 30,000 mi with no problems. People fly the chair with there rigs all the time with out thinking about the side pressure on the wheel bearings.
Lloyd
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AJ1200
Posted 10/9/2017 10:46 AM (#95323 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Location: Savannah Ga
Bone
as mentioned there are a lot of different opinions about what works best when it comes to pulling trailers with the sidecar. So just to offer another, I agree that putting the hitch centered between the bike and car is a bad idea. However in my opinion putting it directly behind the bike doesn't work for me either,I have a very wide camper. So here is what I did. I took my standard hitch for the bike then using a good piece o angle iron I made an extension going towards the car, just enough so I could connect another piece of flat bar from the receiver tube on the sidecar frame. Then I took my camper and set it up behind the bike and made it sit in line with my left saddle bag
so going down the road it is in line with the bag, this way I don't have to worry about it crossing the line if I'm pulling it in the twisties. If I don't cross the line it won't.
I will say there is just a little pull and push effect but it's not bad and if you have brakes on the sidecar and or trailer very easy to control

Edited by AJ1200 10/9/2017 10:50 AM




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jaydmc
Posted 10/9/2017 11:04 AM (#95324 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch


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I have pulled a Kwik Kamp over 100K behind GL's with sidecars. Always moved over from the center line of the bike to the right just enough to be on wider then I needed to be. Centered behind the "rig" sucks. Much more yaw effect on the rig.
We are located in Enumclaw if you need any fabrication done.
BTW, I have owned two GL1500's with F3 sidecars and we have one in the shop being worked on at this time.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
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ocpd44
Posted 10/9/2017 12:41 PM (#95327 - in reply to #95324)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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jaydmc - 10/10/2017 8:04 AM

I have pulled a Kwik Kamp over 100K behind GL's with sidecars. Always moved over from the center line of the bike to the right just enough to be on wider then I needed to be. Centered behind the "rig" sucks. Much more yaw effect on the rig.
We are located in Enumclaw if you need any fabrication done.
BTW, I have owned two GL1500's with F3 sidecars and we have one in the shop being worked on at this time.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793


There you go. Take it from the expert. You appear to live close enough that it might be worth the trip to go see Jay and have a consultation with him about the best way to resolve the issues. I know what you mean about the width. When I got my new rig home from Kentucky, I found I could no longer pull into my single car garage! Oh well, more motivation to clean the other garage out.
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Bone
Posted 10/9/2017 12:41 PM (#95328 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
Thanks for the feedback you guys. Before I posted this I was going to line up the trailer wheel with the rear tire on the motorcycle and see where the side of the trailer came out as far as the motorcycle goes. So it looks like I am on the right track considering my problems. I should have time today to go check on that. Maybe I can even take a pic and post it here. There is a brake on the side car but not on the trailer and the side car has electric tilt.

Jay, I will definitely take you up doing the work for me if I run into troubles when I get around to doing this.
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Bone
Posted 10/11/2017 6:20 PM (#95362 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
Nothing I do allows me to post a pic. NOTHING ! I even went to the help forum and read through all the info I could find. Nothing works. I must be stuuuupid or something. I need someone to tell me step by step how to do this. This seems like the most archaic way I have ever seen to post a pic. Why not just be able to drag and drop your pic into the message reply box like the other forums I belong to. To many extra steps here !!!!
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AJ1200
Posted 10/12/2017 8:01 AM (#95364 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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the way I do it is I make a post and save it, then go back and open it by clicking the edit button in the top right of the post, then when it reopens go to the bottom and go past you post and you will see add attachments
this lefts you brouse your PC for the picture you want.
Now if your trying this from a phone I have no clue
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Bone
Posted 10/13/2017 10:24 AM (#95369 - in reply to #95364)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
AJ1200 - 10/12/2017 5:01 AM

the way I do it is I make a post and save it, then go back and open it by clicking the edit button in the top right of the post, then when it reopens go to the bottom and go past you post and you will see add attachments
this lefts you brouse your PC for the picture you want.
Now if your trying this from a phone I have no clue


ok, thanks AJ I will give that a try.
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Bone
Posted 10/13/2017 10:50 AM (#95370 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
Ok. I am going to try and post a pic. Hope it works.

Before I get to involved with pulling my kwik kamp I have a question. If the pic shows up that should explain it.
The text in the pic is quite small. If you can't read it , it says Is this flimsy joint strong enough to pull a trailer as well as the side car.
My trailer weighs between 500 and 600 lbs. And is the 1500 strong enough to pull this kind of weight riding two up ? I weigh about 160 lbs and my partner is around 140 lbs.


Edited by Bone 10/13/2017 10:56 AM




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Bone
Posted 10/13/2017 11:00 AM (#95371 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
AJ, Thanks for telling me how to post pics. It's a little arse backwards but it worked.
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AJ1200
Posted 10/13/2017 1:00 PM (#95372 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Location: Savannah Ga
NO NO NO Please do not attempt to use that as connection to pull a trailer
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Reardan Tom
Posted 10/13/2017 1:50 PM (#95375 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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I agree wholeheartedly with Ace!! Your 1500 should have the power to pull the load you describe but be aware the stresses the trailer will apply to the hitch will be far above the weight of the trailer since it is not a static load. Somewhat like a 200 pound person on a bungee jump. Far more than 200 pounds hit the end of the cord and if it was rated for 200 pounds only it would surely break. I'm sure there is a mathematical formula for such things and I don't claim to be a mathematician but... You're probably already aware of the need for proper loading of the trailer as well. Tongue weight primarily...
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Bone
Posted 10/13/2017 1:59 PM (#95376 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Location: SW Washington state
I guess I wasn't quite clear enough in explaining what I ment . I was not thinking about using that joint as a connection point. I was only asking if that joint and the one at the back of the rig could withstand the stresses involved when pulling a trailer . I do not intend to use that joint in anyway for an attachment point. I will try to post another pic with what I have in mind.
Thanks for getting back to me.
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AJ1200
Posted 10/13/2017 2:33 PM (#95378 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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I'm sure you didn't mean to use that joint, I didn't really think that, but using that point as a contact for a hitch is still not a good idea. I would not add anything to the actual cars mounting points that could effect it's structure and or operation. is that a sub-frame or is the clevis of that joint bolted to the bikes frame
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Bone
Posted 10/13/2017 4:27 PM (#95379 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
Does this pic help with how the frame work is attached to the car and bike. I was thinking of laying a 2" square heavy wal tube on the large round cross members. Going from front of the bike to back of the bike as the mount in the back is the same as the front, and installing a hitch on the back of the 2" tube. Or something of that nature. I will better pics later today.





Edited by Bone 10/13/2017 4:31 PM




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Bone
Posted 10/13/2017 8:53 PM (#95380 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
Here are some more pics of the mounting of the CSC friendship 3 as mounted by CSC. let me know if you can make head nor tails of these pics. Then my nesxt posting will be of what I had in mind as far as installing a hitch goes. if you have any input to this after viewing the pics please let me know.





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AJ1200
Posted 10/14/2017 7:17 AM (#95384 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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that is a beautiful looking rig
OK I get what your saying now, it has been done, I have seen a few rigs set up that way but still have to say for me I wouldn't do it. if you go back and look at the picture of the back of my bike you can see the ball is inside the area of the saddle bags. even that causes some pull but that was as close as I could get and not have my camper hang out when in a straight line. I don't think you can get your hitch more than even with the inside bag unless you found a way to go under them. the other thing is you would be adding more forces to those connections than they are designed to handle. you may have an issue with keeping the joints tight enough to not move out of alignment. Like I said I have seen it done, I think the tube was secured using u-bolts to connect it to the cross tubes. I'm still fairly new to sidecars and have a lot to learn still but I'm a firm believer that each part and connection is for a specific purpose.
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Bone
Posted 10/14/2017 10:45 AM (#95385 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Location: SW Washington state
First off thanks for the compliment on my rig. I flew to St. Lewis, Mo. to pick it up and drove it home to Woodland, Wa. I took a little over two weeks to do it and some 3,000 miles. Did a lot of sight seeing on Route 66 up to Grants NM. and then headed north west. It only had 42,000 miles on it.

AJ, I agree with everything you have said and that was my first concern, those small clevis joints being able to take the extra load of the trailer.
So these next pics will be sorta what I had in mind. If I do it the way shown in the pics then the ball will be in about the same place as yours. I would have to make a jog in the 2" square tubing running from the front to back because that round tube adjustment point in the front sticks up higher then the frame work. After it was all welded together I would make support brackets at the welded joints . you will see what I mean in the crude drawings I made on the pics, hehehe, I not such a good artist. Please assume that the gold tube and my red lines are the 2" square tubing. Let me know what you think of this.

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Bone
Posted 10/14/2017 11:10 AM (#95386 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: Re: trailer hitch



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Location: SW Washington state
If I were to do it like this then this is approximately how it would sit behind the wing. The edge of the trailer would be inline with side of the bike.

And a few pics of the rig on my way home.

How come some of the pics show up sideways and some don't ?


Edited by Bone 10/14/2017 11:28 AM




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Fly
Posted 10/15/2017 9:59 AM (#95388 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: RE: trailer hitch


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Location: Ohio
I have a 99 gl1500 with a Hannigan super sport sidecar. I bought it used. I tow a Kamperoo popup trailer 360 pounds.
The hannigan is only 200 pounds, I felt it was a little light for the wing. Since I needed a hitch and some ballast I used
a piece of 1"x2" stock 6ft. long weight 58 lbs without the ball. I mounted it under the lower front strut and over the rear lower strut
this gave me the ball height I wanted. The trailer left side wheel is in line with the bike rear tire. This way the rig basically a 2 track
outfit. If you tow off the bike you are 4 track, makes it hard to miss a pot hole. The bike is triple disc and the sidecar has a disc
hooked to the bike rear. No brakes on the trailer. It tows and stops fine.
fly
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Bone
Posted 10/15/2017 3:17 PM (#95390 - in reply to #95388)
Subject: RE: trailer hitch



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Posts: 34
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Location: SW Washington state
Fly - 10/15/2017 6:59 AM

I have a 99 gl1500 with a Hannigan super sport sidecar. I bought it used. I tow a Kamperoo popup trailer 360 pounds.
The hannigan is only 200 pounds, I felt it was a little light for the wing. Since I needed a hitch and some ballast I used
a piece of 1"x2" stock 6ft. long weight 58 lbs without the ball. I mounted it under the lower front strut and over the rear lower strut
this gave me the ball height I wanted. The trailer left side wheel is in line with the bike rear tire. This way the rig basically a 2 track
outfit. If you tow off the bike you are 4 track, makes it hard to miss a pot hole. The bike is triple disc and the sidecar has a disc
hooked to the bike rear. No brakes on the trailer. It tows and stops fine.
fly


Hello fly. Thanks for chiming in. I think I saw a pic of how you did that somewhere but I was wondering if you could post a few pics of your set up. I am still hatching ideas up there in the ole grey matter or at least what's left of it. hahaha. I think I came up with another idea I haven't seen in here. I'll let you all know when I have the idea a little further along.

Bone
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Fly
Posted 10/15/2017 8:34 PM (#95391 - in reply to #95256)
Subject: RE: trailer hitch


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Hi Bone, I am a computer dummy. Don't know how to do pics.
my phone #330-547-2141 if you want to talk. I will answer any questions I can.
fly
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