Posted 12/29/2003 4:58 AM (#1859) Subject: Velorex clamps
I'm attaching a Velorex 562 to my W650 using universal fastennings kit.
It's not too hard but I'm in trouble with the clamps. It has a flat
eyed head bolt and that means that you can fasten them only by half a turn
of rotation due to the required position to receive the rod head.
There is a sleeve between the frame tube and the bolt. The frame tube
diameter is 28mm OD (2mm thick). After getting in touch with the tube when
screwing the bolt I've made around half a turn and then clamp is tightened
or at least don't slip don't move even with an effort.
Now I want to get a secure fastenning. Can I do one more half turn knowing
that thread is 1,0mm or frame tube will be damaged ?
Any advise is welcome.
Thanks in advance.
Posted 12/29/2003 1:11 PM (#1861 - in reply to #1859) Subject: RE: Velorex clamps
Location: Boise, Idaho
The Velorex frame "U" clamps will conform to different sized tubing as you tighten them. One half turn after the shim (shoe) contacts the frame snugly is probably too loose. The "U" clamp is painted with a mil or two of soft enamel which will compress (with time). You should get at least another half turn before there is deformation of the frame tube. I wouldn't go over 60 ft/#s of torque on the eye bolt. If the clamps cannot be setup so there is a straight line push-pull, they might have a tendency to rotate slightly on the frame tubes from side-loading forces. A small spot weld can be applied to both sides of the "U" strap to prevent this from occuring. I usually index the clamp position with a paint marker. That way, if a clamp has shifted, you can tell right away which one has moved and it is easy to get the car back into it's original alignment by eliminating the guesswork.
Edited by Hack'n 12/29/2003 1:14 PM
Posted 1/4/2004 10:12 AM (#1899 - in reply to #1859) Subject: RE: Velorex clamps
I have a little experience with your problem...
1. I attached a Velorex 562 Car to a Suzuki Savage a year ago
2. I just fininshed attaching a Hitchhiker car to my Kawasaki W650
Go ahead and tighten the frame clamps until they align. Believe me, they will still loosen up....I don't think that welding the frame clamps to the motorcycle is a good idea. I cured the problem on the Suzuki by drilling each clamp (thru the frame and out the other side of the clamp) and bolting with a grade 8 bolt and nylok nut. Make sure to drill the clamp the same size as the bolt,(3/16" hole for a 3/16" bolt)makes them "body bound" and a part of the frame tube structure.
Send me a picture of your rig when you get it finished, the W650 is an ideal tug for your Velorex....a great bike, period! I am running a 16T countershaft sprocket on mine. If you haven't changed yours yet, you might consider doing so. The W650 has enough low end to pull the car easily....the 15T stock sprocket makes the rig vibrate at cruising speed in 5th.... (in excess of 3200 RPM ) The 16T sprocket lowers the RPM just enough to eliminate the vibes.
One more tip...as you know, the Velorex is very light....I installed a car battery in the trunk of my old Velorex(lots of room) in a plastic case and eliminated the motorcycle battery. The advantages: the battery is cheaper....lasts longer (less vibration)....more juice for the added lights....and the big one ....ballast.
Posted 1/4/2004 3:39 PM (#1900 - in reply to #1899) Subject: RE: Velorex clamps
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Hackn'. Lonnie, made an important statement in his post thatis manytimes overlooked. >>If the clamps cannot be setup so there is a straight line push-pull, they might have a tendency to rotate slightly on the frame tubes from side-loading forces.<<
It may not be possible in all cases but IF the clamp can be aligned so that the eye is in line with the mounting strut it is a great step toward discouraging the clamp from rotating. If a 'straight line push pull' position is established the chance of the clamp rotating on the frame is lessened dramatically. This can curtail the need for welding or drilling the frame.
I have mounted a few Velorex cars and it seems liek the most roublesome mount is the lower rear mount at the sidecar frame itself. This clamping setup will try to rotate on the sidecar frame. It is not a bad idea to mark the position of this clamp so it can be monitored for slippage. Slippage is many times found to be the culprit when someone notices the left rear of the sidecar frame sagging slightly. The fix? Welding or drilling. It typically does not take too much to secure the mount. I have (probably shouldn't say this) drilled a small hole through the mount and into the sidecar frame and stuck a 16 penny nail in it to do the trick in a pinch..it worked so well it became a permanant fix. Holes drilled should be sealed with caulk of taped up or both to keep water from entering into the sidecar frame.
Velorex mounts have many times got a bad rep that was due to bad positioning more than the fault of the mount itself. There is better mounting hardware out there but the Velorex mounts do a fairly good job if positioned and utilized properly.
Posted 1/4/2004 4:25 PM (#1901 - in reply to #1859) Subject: RE: Velorex clamps
Location: Boise, Idaho
I do not encourage drilling the frame of the (any) bike or the Velorex sidecar to eliminate clamp slippage. I had one instance where a BMW R100R/562 outfit stopped in the shop bound for the North Slope of Alaska from Southern California, quite overloaded and badly sagging. He had stopped in Fresno, CA at a bike shop to get it re-aligned and they had drilled and bolted the front "J" tube, the rear lower s/c sliding clamp and the front strut clamp at the bike. The grade 8 - 1/4" bolts in the drilled holes had worn them into oblong slots and the "J" tube and inner sidecar rail were bent and collapsing. I welded the holes up and spot welded the clamps and he was able to continue his trip to Prudoe Bay without failure. I feel that drilling holes at the point of opposite torsional forces will weaken the tube, and is asking for trouble in the future. A good spot weld adds metal and will not adversly affect the integrity of the frame tubes.
Posted 1/5/2004 6:35 AM (#1904 - in reply to #1901) Subject: RE: Velorex clamps
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Ditto on drilling the frame of the bike...not a good thing. If a through bolt is to be put through a frame tube member the proper method would be to drill a hile through the tube large enough to insert another piece of tubing that the bolt could pass through. This tube would then be welded into place by a competent welder. To simply drill a hole through a round tube is asking for problems as hackn' mentioned. It can also lead to a frame failure at that point that nobody want to see happen. The drilling that I mentioned on the sidecar frame although maybe not the best method in the world is referring toa small 1/8" or so hole that really only needs to be in one side of the tube..spot welding is still the preferred method for the lower rear sidecar frame mount.
Posted 1/5/2004 10:32 PM (#1918 - in reply to #1904) Subject: RE: Velorex clamps
To add some industerial experence to the mix, Claude's idea is good given it's performed by a competent weldor. A even better way is to drill a hole in the clamp only and then weld it back up makeing sure to penatrate the frame well.A oblong slot is even better.If appearance matters grind it flush and paint. The oblong slot should run lengthwise of the frame piece never across it.If you grind and paint well, the next owner wishing to remove it will make your ears turn red.
Posted 1/6/2004 2:57 PM (#1924 - in reply to #1859) Subject: RE: Velorex clamps
I've tighten a bit more the clamps and put paint points. Due to exhaust
pipe it is'nt possible to get a straight line push pull for both two lower
fixings even more it requires an increase of side car wheel lead (~ 12").
I'll follow David's advise to secure this.
Standard sprockets are 15x39 and I've change to 14x43 : in France driving
needs to be a bit more agressive to keep your place in the traffic.
Of course Velorex is very light and I'll put thick plate (50~60 pounds)
along the outside tube of side car frame to ballast.
Posted 1/6/2004 4:22 PM (#1925 - in reply to #1924) Subject: RE: Velorex clamps
Location: Boise, Idaho
Looks like you have it sorted out pretty well. You might want to snug up the head bearings a bit to get of what little head shake you might incur. Don't bind them up, just tighten them up to take the flop out of the front end.
Enjoy your outfit and keep it shiny side up and rubber side down.