Need help, extream pull to the left

Posted 6/22/2004 9:47 PM (#3872)
Subject: Need help, extream pull to the left


Installed sidecar as instructions but on test drive all was great then all of a sudden we took off to the left out of controll and would not straighten up. Can anyone tell me what caused this there was no wobble no warning.
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Posted 6/23/2004 9:17 AM (#3875 - in reply to #3872)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left


Lynn
Have you read The Yellow Book (Driving a Sidecar Outfit)?
Were you leaning your Physical Body to the right into the turn (that is if you were in a right hand turn)?
It could be that you have to much lean out on the Bike.
You didn't say what you are riding? In order to get a proper answer, you must be more specific as to what Motorcycle & Sidecar you have.
Be patient. If you put your location in your profile, you may have someone close by that can give you hands on help.
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Hack'n
Posted 6/23/2004 9:41 AM (#3876 - in reply to #3872)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left



Expert

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I have seen this happen a few times with a new driver. Usually the cause was because they were an experienced solo rider and were trying to countersteer as opposed to steering in the direction they wished to go. Sometimes this countersteering was accompanied with body english or hanging off to help muscle the rig into the turn.
Amusing to watch, but quite terrifying to the new driver, as it will be the first time the chair flies in a turn.
Take it slow, read the books, practice, practice, practice. You may not end up playing Carnegie Hall, but you will be able to drive your outfit there, no fear.
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Posted 6/23/2004 10:09 AM (#3878 - in reply to #3872)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left


The first time that happened to me I was riding my rig that I had set up for one rider on the bike and a passenger in the sidecar. My wife wanted to ride on the back of the bike and I did'nt take into consideration that that would add more weight on the bike and less in the sidecar. We went into a right hand turn, the sidecar went airborne and the bike arched to the left. With my inexperence I tried to countersteer which made maters worse! To make a long story short we went through a ditch, spun around throwing both of us from the bike and through the weeds. I learned a hard lesson on sidecar setup that day!
If you have everything setup correcly, toe-in and lean-out, maby you need less lean-out. That is what it took to correct the problem for me.
Please, Please take the rig some place you can do some practice riding without having to worry about traffic. Do some figure 8's and learn to fly the boat! You will appriciate it later when it happens, and sonner or later it will happen.
I'm not trying to scare anyone but safety is foremost in keeping us riding and well.

Good luck and Happy riding!
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herwing
Posted 6/23/2004 1:59 PM (#3882 - in reply to #3872)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left



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Oh Meme,
Listen to all of the advice the guys have given you, they know what they're talking about. I was lucky that the first time I experienced that particular delight was when we were trying-out my first rig and my husband was driving. He had had an old Harley sidecar rig years earlier and knew better, but he was thinking like a two-wheel rider. We were in a parking lot, both on the bike, no weight in the car. Long story short, right-hand turn, car up and bike into concrete curbing, dented pipes, frightened wife, embarassed husband, and valuable lesson learned (for me). So, I never had to learn the hard way (for myself) about right-hand turns. Noboby mentioned, though, and maybe it's consider wrong by the good sidehackers, but if you're taking a right-hand turn and the car starts to come up, just apply a little foot brake, it'll settle right back down. And keep that weight (everyone here calls it ballast - new term for me) in the car. I, personally, don't want my car flying when I'm taking a turn at 75 mph in interstate traffic!!!
Good Luck - - have fun!!!

Connie

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Posted 6/24/2004 12:01 PM (#3892 - in reply to #3875)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left


Whiskers, thank you for your reply, I have been riding and my husband for two summers on an old silverwing with a veloex car. I have a sportster so I decided I was doing all my riding on our lowrider or this honda,I needed a car on my sportster as to be riding a newer nicer set up, I also have a six year old so now I can ride all I want.We have bought a new velorex 700.I will tell you all was well, I was in the car Doug driving. There was no warning what so ever we were not in any turn and we were off to the left, he said there just was no turning it back into our lane. God is the only explaination as to why we are still alive. He got on the brakes right away as he said there was no getting it to turn back,he is a big guy and strong still it kept going left, we just missed a cluster of three poles, flew into the air and dropped about ten feet down into a field just missed another pole and guy wire and skidded about 300 yards. Truley we both believed we were dead.I believe you are right about the wheel as another person explained why he believes that caused it. My husband is going to complete the hookup, but he says it also must go to a shop before myself or child will be allowed in it again, Any other ideas gladdly accepted. Thank you again MeMe.

Edited by meme 6/24/2004 12:51 PM
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Posted 6/24/2004 12:19 PM (#3893 - in reply to #3878)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left


Hack'n thank you for your reply, my husband was driving I was in the car, we were in no turn at all, we just started to the left and he said he could not get it to steer back into our lane. We have both been riding an old silverwing with a velorex car for two summers so this is not new to us.I am hooked but I have a sportster always in the garage and figured its time to get it set up with a car so I bought a nice velorex 700. Our test drive ended up in a nightmare as we just missed a cluster of three poles and flew into the air and landed down over a 8 to 10 ft bank and skidded about 300 yards to our amazement we were still in alive. I can't even imagine flying off as you guys did. It is going to a shop before my husband will allow me in it again but he's insistant he will figure this out and have it set up right. Any other ideas gratly appriciated, thanks again MeMe

Edited by meme 6/24/2004 12:53 PM
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Posted 6/24/2004 12:26 PM (#3894 - in reply to #3876)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left


Peglegstrick,thanks, my husband was driving I was in the car, we were not in a curve or turn. We are not new riders but this set up is new. Straight down the road going great and it just started off to the left and there was no straightening it out, we'll get it I'm sure. After he is satisfied he's figured it out it will go to a shop for inspection for saftey sake. I will give him your advice to check out,thanks again MeMe.

Edited by meme 6/24/2004 12:59 PM
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Posted 6/24/2004 12:46 PM (#3895 - in reply to #3882)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left


Connie, thank you for your reply. My husband was driving I was in the car, we weren't even in a turn. We are not new to this but the set up is new.We have two Harleys but it seemed I could never ride as I have a little one. Well I got on ebay and found this old silverwing with a car. I have rode this for two summers and I just love it so I decided it was time to get a car and be riding my Harley instead of it sitting in the garage. I think my husband thought I would get over the sidecar thing, well I am hooked and got me a new car, it looks great. He will get it on right and proper then he says it must go to the shop for inspection before I or our daughter are allowed to use it 0ur crash has scared me but I guess its like riding a horse my mom used to say you have to just get right back on and I plan to do just that but last night I rode behind my husband on our lowrider and did feel panicy a cupple times. Thanks again Lynn
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herwing
Posted 6/24/2004 2:12 PM (#3896 - in reply to #3895)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left



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Location: Fairfield, VA
Hi Lynn,
I read the messages that described your wild ride, sure I'm glad that you're ok. Like you, I know sometimes it's only the good Lord who saves us from disaster! I truly understand the panic thing, it's hard to get back on that horse!!! I've never been down or off with the sidecar (except when some fool almost pushed me off the interstate in 2002 - real scary!!), but I have been down with 2 wheels a couple of times. The first time that happend was the first time that I ever truly felt that I was going to die (2nd was in 2002). If we hadn't been on a trip with no other way to get home, I probably would never have gotten back on a bike. But, I did and I'm glad that I suffered through those awful panic feelings, most of our friends are cyclist and most of our activities are cycle related. Our first trip of the year is usually Daytona Bike Week and our last major trip of the year is Biketoberfest in Daytona. My life would be almost totally different if not for bikes.
You definitely want to make sure everything is perfect before you take your little one with you (my kids - now grown - are the other major part of my life), don't want anything to go wrong with such treasure on board!!!
Where are you having the rig checked out? I don't know anything about setting one up, but I do know that little things mean a lot to how a rig handles. Hope you make sure it's done by someone who knows their stuff!! Just the pressure in the shocks can make mine feel just awful and almost impossible to ride.
Well, I hope you get the problem all straightened out and you enjoy lots and lots of safe, happy miles hacking this summer! I honestly don't see that many rigs "period" and most of the ones that I do see are piloted by guys, so, YOU GO GIRL!!!
Connie
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stacebg
Posted 6/25/2004 7:13 PM (#3902 - in reply to #3872)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left


did this happen on the vel rig??

check your rigging especially the rear lower

i hate that lower rear stock mount
stacy
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Hack'n
Posted 6/25/2004 11:36 PM (#3903 - in reply to #3902)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left



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Stacy,
Spot weld that lower rear clamp and it won't slip anymore.
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claude #3563
Posted 6/26/2004 6:53 AM (#3904 - in reply to #3903)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left



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If you are leary about welding the lower rear mount you should at least mark it so it can be seen if it rotates on the frame at all. I have pinned them, screwed them on and welded them...as Stacy and Lonnie mentioned ...YES..they can be a problem.
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Posted 6/26/2004 7:25 PM (#3913 - in reply to #3904)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left


This is how I stopped Rear Mount slippage on the H-D Hack.

After 15 years of Hacking with H-D's, I decided that the Rear Mounting Assembly with U-Bolts, that stretch after awhile and tend to bite into the sidecar tube frame, aren't much good. I've seen to many slip. 10-32 set screws just don't hold enough.
Check out Picture to the left: Rear Mounting Assembly with new Block.
I went to a Machinist to get a block made to replace the U-Bolts.
1 5/16 x 2 1/2 x 2 3/4 Block, 3/8 -16 x 2 3/4 Cap Screw SS Bolts, Nylok SS Nuts & Washers.
Maybe I did a little over kill, 5-5/16-18 knurled set screws [redrilled & taped (2 inside) 10-32 to 5/16-18]. Had him put (3) 5/16-18 set screws in the Block.
Machinist found that on the stock part, the weld was raised toward the sidecar, and the block was warped. He indicated and faced it to get it true with the new Block.
Double Wammie with 5 Set Screws & Fully Clamped.
It's Fly 'd Chair time, with no more slipping of U-Bolts.
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stacebg
Posted 6/26/2004 10:59 PM (#3915 - in reply to #3903)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left


imho tacking the mount is not the answer
i replace the whole thing w a short pc of pipe some gussets and some pinch style clamps
imho
the lower front and rear should not have the bolt through clevis on the sidecar frame but should be a tube in a tube the clevis is fine for the bike

if i do an install on a vel the first thing to go is the lower rear clamp

stacy
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claude #3563
Posted 6/27/2004 11:59 AM (#3921 - in reply to #3915)
Subject: RE: Need help, extream pull to the left



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Agreed Stacy.
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