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HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?
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Posted 9/2/2004 8:04 PM (#4625)
Subject: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Riding a 2002 FLHT with a HD hack. Problem is EXCESSIVE SIDECAR tire wear. I believe the toe in needs adjustment. I will have to look at that. BUT, the HD mechanic told me he believes the SIDECAR tire should be a REAR Tire, while mine is a front....? Thoughts? Also, I have heard about auto tires being used. thoughts again?
PS, bought a used 99 hack, had it installed 1400 miles ago. Tire was maybe a little less than "Half tread", after 1400 miles, NYLON THREADS showing....... sounds like EXCESSIVE wear to me! Bob
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Mobilegroomer
Posted 9/2/2004 9:17 PM (#4626 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Member

Posts: 7
0
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Check out the responses to my post a few items down ("Excessive Tire Wear"). Got some good responses to that. My FLHT rear tire is nearly through the tread at about 4200 miles (3000 with hack). My toe-in was 2 3/4". I changed it to about 3/4". I hope that helps but I probably won't know for sure till I put a new tire on an keep an eye on the wear.
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Mobilegroomer
Posted 9/2/2004 9:19 PM (#4627 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Member

Posts: 7
0
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Oops, sorry, I just noticed your tire wear is on the sidecar. You're more fortunate than me as it's much easier/cheaper to r2 a sidecar tire!!
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Posted 9/2/2004 9:35 PM (#4628 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


The manual for my '99 Ultra says use a rear tire on it. Its printed on the outside sidewall by the rotation arrow whither its a front or rear. Your dealer might be able to order a '99 manual, if not, then check ebay. That will give you your toe-in and lean settings as well as installation and wiring.

Remember on the lean, have about the same weight on the bike that you ride with, including passenger and luggage. Otherwise you'll get a false reading when you check for square.
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Posted 9/3/2004 7:37 AM (#4635 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


I've got a '94 HD Bagger with a '78 HD Hack and it wouldn't set up by the manual. This thing was all over the road and pulled hard to the right. It says 2 deg lean out and I ended up setting it up with 2 deg lean in and 7/8" toe-in. Which this winter, I'm giving it some more toe-in. I really think the manual is just a starting point and you have to do a ride and adjust for each individual rig. A good Bro of mine also has a HD Bagger with HD Hack and his is set up with lean in instead of lean out like the manual says. As far as tire wear goes, you've got a heavy bike with a heavy hack hangin' on the right side of it, and more than likely a load in the hack, I just deal with it. Just my .02, do I get change?
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JayDauntless
Posted 9/7/2004 8:44 PM (#4663 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 359
1001001002525
Location: Covington WA
We have auto tires that will fit right on the stock Harley 16 inch wheels. They are called twin tires and can be seen on our web site www.dauntlessmotors.com They sell for $95 each.
Thank you.
Jay Giese
Dauntless Motors Corporation
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Posted 9/9/2004 3:15 PM (#4680 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


I've got Jay's Twin tires on my rig front and rear. Now about 8000 miles on them with no wear visible!!! As soon as the sidcar tire is worn some more I'll be switching that one also.
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Posted 10/13/2004 2:37 PM (#5012 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Front tire - Dunlop D402F PT (PT = Police Tire)
Rear tire - Dunlop D402 PT
Hack tire - Dunlop D402F PT

These are an OEM item for Harley Police bikes - you will not find them listed in the Dunlop cataloge or on their web-site. Most Dunlop dealers will deny any knowledge of them because for the most part they really have not heard of them!
Most H/D dealers also won't know what this tire is unless they do the local Police business.
These are run-flat tires of a very hard, long wearing compound with an incredibly thick sidewall that prevents the tire from coming off the rim during a puncture.
The biggest side benifit is that they are a very long wearing tire - my front is just getting changed out with over 28,000 on it and I routinely get 15,000 on my pusher. The hack tire has never worn out!
Hope this helps....
Happy Motorin'
Dean & Betty
00 FLHPI w/hack
98 Ural w/hack
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Posted 10/13/2004 5:49 PM (#5016 - in reply to #5012)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Dean & Betty
As noted by your post on(PT)the Front & Sidecar tires are the same.
That is how I always run mine.
The H-D Sidecar usually comes with a rear tire on it.

On the Police Tires with being very hard & a thick sidewall.
How do they ride?
What Hwy speed to you cruise at?
Have you modified your shocks?
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Posted 10/13/2004 7:01 PM (#5017 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Wiskers,
I run the stock air shocks that came on the bike - and I usually run the rear set of shocks at almost a max pressure of 30lbs with 35 being max. Always run the front at 25lbs.
With the combination of the air-shocks and the air-ride seat (it's a bone stock Police bike) I have never had an issue with the ride.
As for our usual running speed - 70-75 is a pretty normal cruising speed on the slab for us.
I have found the price of the 402 PTs to be the same as the regular, but much shorter wearing, Dunlops. The service guys absolutely hate to spoon these things on - the sidewall is that thick. However I have also found that a dozen - or two - donuts for the boys in the service department is a very cheap way to get both good and fast service on my bike!
Happy Motorin'
Dean & Betty

Edited by Dean & Betty 10/13/2004 7:04 PM
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Jersey John
Posted 10/16/2004 5:43 PM (#5051 - in reply to #5012)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


New User

Posts: 4
0
Location: Central Jersey
Hello,

Any problem with traction because of the longer-wearing tire compound?

Thanks very much.
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harryho
Posted 10/20/2004 2:42 PM (#5087 - in reply to #5012)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Member

Posts: 13
0
about the dunlop pt tires 402pt I find the 491 to out wear the the 401 and 402 have you compared the 491 to the402pt


harryho tennessee
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Posted 11/7/2004 10:08 AM (#5253 - in reply to #5051)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Sorry for the long delay - just got back from 3 weeks in Germany.
About the traction - we also run these tires on our solo bikes at work and routinely drag the boards on tight, high-speed turns. Have never had a traction issue. Now I'm sure they are not as "sticky" as a normal softer tire, but for how we use them - and especially for a sidecar rig - they are great tires. I have had to lock the brakes on a couple of occations and they stop the bike just fine also.
Hope that helps!
Happy Motorin'
Dean & Betty
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Posted 11/7/2004 10:15 AM (#5254 - in reply to #5087)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Harryho,
Have never tried the 491's.
My main reason besides the long wearing abilities of the 402PTs is the "run-flat" capability. I have actually let all the air out of my tires and I can still make it down the road on these - not fast mind you - but can still motor along, hopefully to the next town!
After a friend took a gutter nail through his rear tire and went down due to a blow out - he too, switched over to these because of the run-flat/tire stays on the bead design.
Happy Motorin'
Dean & Betty
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claude #3563
Posted 11/9/2004 7:03 AM (#5270 - in reply to #5254)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?



Expert

Posts: 2471
20001001001001002525
Location: Middleburg, Pa
I can vouch for the Dunlop 491 s doing a good job for us....but..Ya can't run 'em with no wind inside, BEEN THERE DONE THAT..IT DON'T WORK :=)
Claude (who is heading outside right now to fix a flat..lol)
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hdrghack
Posted 11/9/2004 5:17 PM (#5277 - in reply to #5270)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Expert

Posts: 1346
100010010010025
Location: WESTERN NEW YORK
I have run the 491 on the rear of my rig with good results aprox.6500 to 7000 miles on the rear skin.I followed a thread at SCT on the 402PT and thought I would give one a try.As stated above,the guys in the shop don't like to install them in Western New York either.I think I will try try a couple boxes of doughnuts to as suggested.To date I only have aprox. 900 miles on it so far to early to tell but I do like the firmer sidewalls the tread gauge shows no change as of yet to be continued.
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sidecarLenny
Posted 11/14/2004 8:08 AM (#5322 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Veteran

Posts: 152
1002525
Location: Warwick NY
I have been tracking this post and was wondering if I could use these police tires on my 87 heritage softail/lierty sidecar rig.
Since this bike has the horizontal shocks and one post mentioned if you
modified you shock air pressure, I wanted to be sure that I could use these tires with my rig.
I will need to change my rear tire next year and have not yet decided on my choice of options. Riding a hack 3 yrs+.
Twin tire from Jay at Dauntless?
Change my rear setup and have Harry make me a solid rim and use a car radial?
Dunlop police tire?
Any advice from you more experienced riders on which way to go? Thanks lenny
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claude #3563
Posted 11/14/2004 8:29 AM (#5324 - in reply to #5322)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?



Expert

Posts: 2471
20001001001001002525
Location: Middleburg, Pa
hdrghack (Chuck) stated he was getting ,what?, 6-7000 miles with the dunlop. Chuck has been in the sidecar game for many years so I think we can assume his setup is decent. He should, I think, increase the milage for his rear tire with the police tire or with the twin tire. How much? I have no idea. Maybe some others can comment here. These are both good options.
Lenny , I don't think you mentioned what tire you have run nor what milage you have experienced in the past. I would think the milage should be at least similar to Chuck's milage.
If you did decide to go with a wheel from Harry it would not be a bad thing. I think Harry mentioned running a 165R15 on the Harleys. This is a tire that is readily available as a rule..check it out. The last one we purchased was on sale at Pep Boys for 38 bucks! This is a far sight less expensive than the Dunlop and a little less than the Twin Tires. But..unless you plan to run the rig for enough miles to let the wheel pay for itself then it may be hard to justify. How many miles should you get with the 165? I don't know but there would be a difference. Maybe Harry would have a better handle on it. He IS a good friend and square shooter.
Please Keep us posted ..

Edited by claude #3563 11/14/2004 8:31 AM
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sidecarLenny
Posted 11/14/2004 9:39 AM (#5330 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Veteran

Posts: 152
1002525
Location: Warwick NY
I spoke with Harry the other nite to get some idea of price and time frame to complete the job. He is very honest and a knows his craft.In addition to running car radials(decreased cost/improved performance)Harry also mentioned that solid rear wheel should be more stable and stronger to handle the stresses that the spoked stock rim currently on the bike.
Iam running with Avon MKII and would have to say 6,500 miles is about right for the rear tire.
I avg. 5000/ year (have 3 young children/am one of two Docs in a busy
Family practice office) so riding time is limited.
That why I asked for in the info on the RON-DEE-VOO post.
Family activites and on call responsibilities limit my ability to attend alot of these rallies.
Thanks again Lenny
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claude #3563
Posted 11/14/2004 9:53 AM (#5331 - in reply to #5330)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?



Expert

Posts: 2471
20001001001001002525
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Harry mentioned speaking to you. I just was not sure it was you .
Claude
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Posted 11/14/2004 11:17 AM (#5333 - in reply to #5012)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


When I checked with the HD dealer the answer I got was (copied from one of their bulletins):

"D402 PT bead lock tires may only be mounted on matching Harley-Davidson FXRP, FLHTP or FLHP rims."

Would like to give them a try on my FLHTCUI (Ultra), but they say I don't have the right rims/wheels.
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sidecarLenny
Posted 11/14/2004 1:01 PM (#5335 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Veteran

Posts: 152
1002525
Location: Warwick NY
That's very interesting post !
Does anyone know the answer to this?
I have a 87 heritage so I would assume that I could not use these tires if you need special rims that come on police bikes.
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hdrghack
Posted 11/15/2004 8:49 PM (#5354 - in reply to #5333)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Expert

Posts: 1346
100010010010025
Location: WESTERN NEW YORK
Well.............let me see.......got a 2001 roadglide thats a FLTRI no P with the factory spoke wheels and although there was some cussing comming from the shop when they were installing the 402PT on the rear wheel it did finally go on.The next time I see a police bike I will check it out if they have "special rims" I was told by the dealer that I go to that they are hard to install and once they are on you will work to get it off I told the guy at the counter at that point you see what my rear tires look like when I come in so break the bead and cut it off at that point I am done with that tire.The side walls are very stiff and thick,the rubber is suppost to be a hard compound I also tried to talk to Dunlop here in Western New York where the MC Tires are made and explain to them why I wanted some info. on this tire I was only refered back to the touring tires and told that these are what I should be using.As for installing it on a spoked rim I think I would pass on that I have seen a few rigs with loose or broken spokes to the rear rim.
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Posted 11/15/2004 8:57 PM (#5355 - in reply to #5335)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


For what it's worth - H/D Police bikes have the same tubeless rims as any other touring model.
I ride a Police bike both professionaly and for pleasure and believe me, there are no "secret Police rims" out there.
Now I have no idea why the dealer does not want to mount them unless:
* The service guys will revolt!
* He does not carry this tire and does not want to admit it and unless he
services the local Police bikes this is very likely the case.
* In todays lawyer driven world he feels that if he goes against the
service bulletin and something happens in regards to this bike/tire
combo that you will come back on him - this is most likely the reason.
See if he will just sell the tire to you and go have an independent shop mount it.
I see new take-offs on e-bay every week.
If not - looks like the twin-tire option from Jay might be the way to go.
It's funny how every dealer is different - but then I have an FLHPI (Roadking Police) so it's not an issue for me.
Happy Motorin'
Dean & Betty
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sidecarLenny
Posted 11/16/2004 7:14 PM (#5363 - in reply to #4625)
Subject: RE: HD sidecar tire.... HD front or Rear? or auto tire?


Veteran

Posts: 152
1002525
Location: Warwick NY
I think that Dean hit the nail on the head abot being sued if anything goes wrong and the owner of the bike claims "FOUL PLAY"on the installer.
Producing a document stating police tires should not be installed on any other model other than the police models could lead to legal action against them.
The dealer may also be concerned with getting in trouble with HD at the corporate level for not following their guidelines.

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