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Where to mount the car?
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RichardMc4
Posted 5/31/2014 8:37 AM (#77993)
Subject: Where to mount the car?



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1141
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Location: Williston, Fl
The other day I was talking with a man about the sidecar coming off the ground in a right turn. We talked some about how to get it down. Please do not tell me to practice in a parking lot and it will not happen. It does to all and if it has not to you. You need to ride more. One of the ways to get it down is to turn back to the left. This is not good because you are now in the oncoming lane.

This is when a nutty thought hit me. What if we in the USA where we ride on the right side of the road we put the sidecar on the left. Yes we could fly the car in a left turn but the side of the road is better than a head on.

Feel free to tell me where I am nuts but we already know that I am a Sidecarist.
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Crilly
Posted 5/31/2014 9:18 AM (#77994 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?


Member

Posts: 23
0
I have thought about this. It is better to hang a sidecar over the shoulder then over the center line. Plus it is better if you screw up to take the hit instead of your passenger.
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Hack'n
Posted 5/31/2014 9:52 AM (#77998 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: RE: Where to mount the car?



Expert

Posts: 4833
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Location: Boise, Idaho
With the lefties you have a very limited view of oncoming traffic if there is anything ahead of you, vehicle, turn or other sight distance problem.
The monkey, and most of your rig is in the oncoming lane and in harms way when you shift to the left to check oncoming traffic when trying to pass. Scary! I've been that monkey.

Lonnie
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michaelh
Posted 5/31/2014 12:19 PM (#78001 - in reply to #77998)
Subject: RE: Where to mount the car?


Veteran

Posts: 120
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Location: Pago Pago, American Samoa
I know I don't know anything (really, I don't, yet to even sit on a rig), but I enjoy flights of whimsey with technical problems because they can lead to solutions that have been otherwise discarded.

Couldn't the on-coming traffic issue be delt with with a camera and heads up display on a windscreen (like some cars now have back-up cameras)?

On the whimsey, just because I have access to the gear, I've gotten a chuckle to myself with the thought of a vertically mounted argon bottle with a solenoid valve, operated from a panic button on the handlebars. That'll get you back down in a heartbeat!

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RichardMc4
Posted 6/1/2014 9:35 AM (#78005 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1141
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Location: Williston, Fl
Thanks guys. I was not looking at the big (hold) picture. I now remember when in the Navy driving our trucks over sea where they drove on the left.
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WinginCamera
Posted 6/4/2014 10:01 PM (#78062 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Veteran

Posts: 204
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Location: Spanaway, Wa.
When carrying a passenger there shouldn't have much of a problem with the right handers. When empty I have two five gallon plastic collapsible jugs filled with water I seat belt in the hack. Works good and the sidecar rides better with a little weight in it. A few times when I picked up a passenger I just dump the water and put the jugs in the trunk.
One time while making one of my solo rides around Mt Rainier park I stopped at a view point and another motorcyclist started asking questions about sidecars. He had never rode in one and asked for a ride. I dump the water, he secured his bike and off we went. We made the circle around the mountain and returned to his bike still parked on the side of the road. He left thinking about getting into sidecars.
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Hack'n
Posted 6/5/2014 10:35 AM (#78076 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Expert

Posts: 4833
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Location: Boise, Idaho
How did it handle afterward with no ballast, or were you able to reload the jugs there?
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Doug Hasert
Posted 6/19/2014 12:11 PM (#78345 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?


Veteran

Posts: 105
100
Location: Mesa AZ.
I was taught many years ago if the wheel comes up in a rh turn, give a little front brake to slow it down and the car will come down. Check Hal Kendalls books, I beleve they are still on this website.
Doug, '82 Wing/Watsonian Monaco sidecar.

Edited by Doug Hasert 6/19/2014 12:12 PM
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cleatusj
Posted 6/25/2014 6:34 AM (#78423 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Regular

Posts: 84
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Location: Granbury, Tx
If the car comes up early in a right hander, I went in too fast. If it comes up halfway through or later, I give it more throttle and counter steer.
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TomM
Posted 6/26/2014 12:05 AM (#78444 - in reply to #78423)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Member

Posts: 30
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I've read several times "Ural-How to Ride". It reenforces the basic concept and give you the physics of why a right hand S/C flies on a hard right turn. In a nutshell, it's the transfer of weight b/c in a hard left turn the rear drive tire will pop up. Remember to always lean into the curve when driving a S/C as noted on pages 50 & 51 of the above mentioned manual. The manual calls the triangle formed between the three wheels the 'Tipover Line'. I will try to attach the file for you. Tom

 

Ural Tipover Lines





Edited by TomM 6/26/2014 12:13 AM




Attachments
----------------
Attachments URAL How To Ride - HowToRideUral.pdf - URAL How To Ride - HowToRideUral.pdf (21565KB - 5 downloads)
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WinginCamera
Posted 6/26/2014 6:16 PM (#78469 - in reply to #78076)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Veteran

Posts: 204
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Location: Spanaway, Wa.
Hack'n - 6/5/2014 10:35 AM

How did it handle afterward with no ballast, or were you able to reload the jugs there?


If I can refill the jugs I do, the few times I had to empty them for a passenger I usually ended up riding home with them empty. The chair handles OK, just take it a little easier in the right turns. Another reason for the water jugs is my rig rides a little better if a little weight is in the chair, especially on a rough road.
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TomM
Posted 6/27/2014 8:40 AM (#78477 - in reply to #78469)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Member

Posts: 30
25
Here is the Ural manual to which I referred.
Tom



Attachments
----------------
Attachments URAL How To Ride - HowToRideUral.pdf - URAL How To Ride - HowToRideUral.pdf (21565KB - 14 downloads)
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Buckaroo50
Posted 7/7/2014 12:00 AM (#78660 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?


Member

Posts: 14
0
Location: Port Townsend, WA
The technique for keeping the hack down in right turns is to apply a little front brake while adding throttle. It seems counter intuitive but added power to the drive wheel with the f/brake dissipates some of the lateral forces by slightly drifting the rear tire to the outside. Unless you are just too damn fast in the corner this should work. Having the hack wheel come up in turns is not a big deal unless you lift the car above the balance point which is pretty far from the horizontal. At that point you do need to counter steer to control the rig. If the car lifts at higher speeds make sure you have some lean out in the geometry of your rig. The car will press harder to the road the faster you go.
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cleatusj
Posted 7/22/2014 6:35 AM (#78983 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Regular

Posts: 84
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Location: Granbury, Tx
If the chair does not fly in the first few miles, I've made a decision to have less that the most enjoyable ride or have a passenger. This is about the way I ride this Guzzi rig and not about how you should ride yours. I practice fly/no-fly on rights up to about 80 mph on most every ride.
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SwampFox
Posted 7/22/2014 8:54 AM (#78984 - in reply to #78983)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Expert

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Location: Summer Grove, LA USA
cleatusj - 7/22/2014 6:35 AM
If the chair does not fly in the first few miles... This is about the way I ride this Guzzi rig and not about how you should ride yours....


Not all of us ride with as much "spirit" as cleatusj.  Laughing
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Peter Pan
Posted 7/22/2014 9:57 AM (#78987 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Expert

Posts: 1914
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Location: San Isidro de Heredia, Costa Rica
Fly the chair is fun on small light rigs. Just keep in mind you pay for everything in life the one or other way.
My first MZ rig I had to bend back the frame into shape every 3 month.
My Jawa rig needed 3 engine overhauls in 28000km plus a new lower bowl for the boat.
The Ural I touch with silk gloves... Why?
Damn too expensive to break her.

The left turns are WAY more dangerous. When you get over the tip point there is nothing to stop the full flip over!!!!!
So or You learn or you learn!!!!
I prefer the easy way not the hard way.
But that is up to you. Nobody seems to learn by other men experience.

Have fun and/or an insurance that covers suicide too.

If you have no parking lot available make your muscle reaction training on gravel roads.
They train much better and faster then anything else. I am sure you notice fast that for good reason most of us have the trunk full of spares, tools and all sorts of stuff.
Sven

Edited by Peter Pan 7/22/2014 10:03 AM
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cleatusj
Posted 7/22/2014 5:45 PM (#78990 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Regular

Posts: 84
252525
Location: Granbury, Tx
Well stated Sven, explicitly the gravel road training.
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Peter Pan
Posted 7/22/2014 9:02 PM (#78992 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Expert

Posts: 1914
1000500100100100100
Location: San Isidro de Heredia, Costa Rica
Hello Richard,
sorry if I had not recognized you.
You have enough saddle time to respond your own question well enough yourself.

What was it that day?
A couple of pints too much?
or a little bug biting you: "Let's stir it up!"
or did I miss that it was on 1. of April?

Enjoy every moment, life cannot be turned backwards.
We live now and here!

Sven from a "People of Gotham" country.

PS:
I had a good laugh reviewing the thread and finding out it was a grease pot trap.
Might be I am affected by too much time spent in the Sovietsteed forum, where you cannot see well who is who.
Here I feel much more confortable.

Edited by Peter Pan 7/22/2014 9:13 PM
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RichardMc4
Posted 7/22/2014 9:14 PM (#78993 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1141
100010025
Location: Williston, Fl
Number 2 "Let's stir it up" It worked. LOL
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Peter Pan
Posted 7/22/2014 9:21 PM (#78994 - in reply to #77993)
Subject: Re: Where to mount the car?



Expert

Posts: 1914
1000500100100100100
Location: San Isidro de Heredia, Costa Rica
Definetely
Thanks for sending us into the weed.



(Steinzeitfrau_im_Schlepp.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Steinzeitfrau_im_Schlepp.jpg (236KB - 0 downloads)
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