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motorvation form II
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AJ1200
Posted 10/8/2014 9:08 AM (#80539 - in reply to #80536)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
I rode the rig to work today so I could have it on level concrete and set it up. WOW even with it out of adjustment it rode great. I pumped up my front shocks to 6PSI and put my rear at about 70
that took that bad wobble out completely, it does have a slight shimmy at low speed and a vibration right at 53 MPH, could be tire balance
once on good level ground I can see it is leaned in a good bit, but it barely pulled
I was impressed with how smooth it rides, the side to side movement from road conditions took a minute to get used to but weren't unsettling
I did find the wind coming off the car windshield was a bit more than I expected, was hitting me right in my right shoulder and helmet, just enough to create bad wind noise inside the helmet
I'm hoping when I get the lean set up correctly it will reduce that
First impression,,, I like it

Edited by AJ1200 10/8/2014 9:11 AM
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AJ1200
Posted 10/9/2014 9:04 AM (#80567 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



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Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
SO I have the first adjustments and alignment done, the vibration went from 53 MPH to 58 MPH and is now about half as noticeable. I now have a slight pull to the right when accel. and a slight pull left when braking,
what should I look at adjusting to correct that. I do plan to have a couple coworkers sit on bike and in car and recheck everything again today. I may have the lean out set too far out
the wobble at very slow speed got worse, but really only if I ease up on the bars when taking off, once I hit 3rd gear it's gone. is that what the damper corrects
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Crilly
Posted 10/9/2014 9:30 PM (#80590 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


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Posts: 23
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If you have a rig set up right. It well pull toward the side car when accelerating and pull the other way when braking. The faster you go the more it well pull toward the car. "They all do that"
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pago cruiser
Posted 10/9/2014 11:52 PM (#80602 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 34
25
Location: Tucson - its a dry heat
+1. What he said.
Yep, the damper takes care of exactly what you describe. Also, mine were worse if you are coasting down a hill slowing to a stop; again, the damper solved it.
The height of the windscreen also affects the wind blast onto the bike. Tall hack screen, lots of wind. Short screen, less wind. I cut my screen down to about 8": just enough to give the dog some eye protection. Could not get her to wear doggles, no matter what we did; must have been a Harley rider in a previous life...LOL.

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AJ1200
Posted 10/10/2014 7:55 AM (#80607 - in reply to #80602)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



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Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
thanks for the replies, it makes me feel better as the pull is very slight. I am curious though, I know if it was toed out it would shake like mad as the car and bike would fight each other, but how can you tell other than fast tire wear if it's toed in too much, is there some tell tell sign I can look for
mine is almost 1 1/2 inches now. I read the heavier cars could need up to 2 inches, is that correct
do you guys run a second battery in the car tied to the bike, I am considering putting a battery behind the seat to reduce the load on the bike from the extra lights. I already have a higher amp alternator but I have 55/65 W headlights so they really pull on their own, now I have added lights of the car and I do pull a camper and cargo trailers quite often
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pago cruiser
Posted 10/10/2014 11:07 AM (#80610 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 34
25
Location: Tucson - its a dry heat
I posted my numbers earlier in this thread - 1/2" toe in. Gary at Motorvation suggested 3/8" - 1/2"; which is what all my rigs are. I've never seen any numbers greater than this recommended - maybe someone else can weigh in?

Other than direct measuring, tire wear is your best indicator that all is well, or "WTF is causing that?"...

I carry a group 24 battery in the hack - it only powers the air horn compressor. Between the battery and the air horn comp/2 gallon receiver tank, have never needed to add additional ballast. The horn is used so seldom, I recharge the battery maybe three times/year. I run the sidecar light from the bike electrical system. I run all LED driving lights (2 on bike and 1 on hack) and have not had a problem with power. This was after running PIAA's in halogen (I think); those babies were less bright, and drew about 3X the power; that 4" lens cover looked impressive though...
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AJ1200
Posted 10/10/2014 12:44 PM (#80611 - in reply to #80610)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
well I guess I better go get that toe in down closer to 1/2 right away then. I know my bike batt is getting old but I just figured 2 working together would be good
I have air horns as well and rarely use them either but for the short burst here and there I just run them through a relay being fed direct from battery and use a momentary button I mounted under the stock bike horn button
I need to get a couple shots of the rig and post it, the more I ride it the more I'm liking it
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AJ1200
Posted 10/10/2014 3:38 PM (#80615 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
something else I noticed this morning riding in to work, I put the rag top on this morning, wanted to see if it would change wind flow. I quickly realized my right mirror was almost useless
after looking at pictures of MANY other rigs I only see a few with mirrors on the car, what is your take on adding a mirror

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Hack'n
Posted 10/10/2014 5:24 PM (#80624 - in reply to #80615)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Expert

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Location: Boise, Idaho
AJ,
Sidecar mirrors are for the monkey to look at. Distance and vibration would make them somewhat useless for the pilot.
My old MGTD had front fender mirrors which were cute, but soon removed for this reason.

Lonnie
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AJ1200
Posted 10/12/2014 7:51 AM (#80645 - in reply to #80624)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



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Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
yeah I kind offigured it might be hard to use anyway. so here is apic of the rig. still working on fine tuning the adjustments. the big thing now is I have to figure out how to wire up the elec. lean




(012.JPG)



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Attachments 012.JPG (719KB - 1 downloads)
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Hack'n
Posted 10/12/2014 1:40 PM (#80649 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Expert

Posts: 4833
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Location: Boise, Idaho
Add a little dust and sand and those nose "bras" shimmy around and make good sandpaper to dull the paint finish.
Found that out years ago with Judy's V Dub.

I prefer a few small rock chips to the bras. A small daub of paint on a toothpick will take care of those.

Lonnie
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AJ1200
Posted 10/17/2014 4:45 PM (#80746 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
I agree, I took it off today
I got out and adjusted everything again today because I had totally overlooked the part about the car tire leading the bike rear tire, WOW I checked and it was like 2 inches
so I loosened everything and shifted the car forward. I had to work at readjusting everything of course to get this new change to work. I also moved the toe in from around 2" in to 1"
I'm going to ride it then recheck all my measurements again
I will say other than pulling to the right and leaning a lot when turning left with a passenger in the car it handled really nice as it was
I know the leaning was due to lack of lead in the car, and pulling is a given I guess, it wasn't that bad anyway
I know my wheel camber was off so when I moved the car forward I also leveled it better so now it's level with a person on the bike
I'm having a little trouble getting the nose up to make the car level front to back, how important is that and what is the secret to getting it there
Oh and my measurement from frame bike frame to car frame is just under 14" I guess that is OK or should it be closer to 12"
I'm afraid if I moved it closer then car top would hit my right mirror when raised and the car would be crammed against my highway board

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BiscuitsNGravy
Posted 12/29/2014 3:23 AM (#81909 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: RE: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 33
25
Location: Gowrie, IA
I've had a Motorvation Formula about a year and a half. The sidecar was installed at the store. Only trouble I've had was that my grandsons turned the electric lean switch on in the garage, then ran off when it started to chatter at the end of the throw. The switch toggle did not have "return to off" springs for the ups and downs. So when I found out what happened, the motor had burnt out and didn't survive. Through Motorvation, I found the company that makes the linear actuator and ordered a new motor. It was very easy to install. I found a switch on the internet that is on off on, and the switch cannot remain on. The new motor and the switch costs over $200 with shipping, ect. I supplied to labor. I removed the old switch and installed the new one on the left side hard bag. It really works well.

Also, I took the bike battery completely out of the bike (Kaw 1600 Nomad) and mounted a new deep cycle 12V battery behind the seat (with cover). It is all wired up and really works well. I got the knowledge to do that from this forum. Ain't is great?

And A.J., now you can ride in the snow!
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AJ1200
Posted 12/29/2014 10:17 AM (#81915 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



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Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
Just curious, why would you use a deep cycle battery vs a good standard car battery.
good to here you were able to replace the motor, at least all that happened was a burnt out motor, good thing it didn't start melting wiring as it burnt out.
I wired mine to a on/off/on switch and mounted in on my handle bars under my horn, that way I can make adjustments and not have to reach for the switch.

Not much chance of having to ride in the snow around here and I try to plan trips to avoid it as well, I like to see a good snow but I'm not a big fan of dealing with it anymore
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jwshort
Posted 12/29/2014 8:46 PM (#81919 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


Elite Veteran

Posts: 818
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Location: Rapid City, SD
Hi:
I have had that little switch burn out or break lugs twice. I found a replacement at Radio Shack that looked like the one they had sent to replace the original. It is pea green and has 6 lugs on the back and returns to off when released. AND it is cheap and I got it without waiting.
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BiscuitsNGravy
Posted 12/29/2014 9:20 PM (#81920 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: RE: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 33
25
Location: Gowrie, IA
I could have used a regular car battery, but I figured the deep cycle battery was made for lots of discharges and subsequent charging so it would last longer than a regular car battery. I may be wrong but it works good for me. And it's heavier and even more likely to hold the sidecar down in right turns. And also, if I ran the rig into a lake, I could just connect the handy trolling motor and drive back to shore. It's easier than using a paddle.

BTW.... I installed the new battery several months after I fixed the actuator.
rocker
The old switch was originally installed near the horn button, which is probably the most handy place for it. But the new rocker switch is an "on/off...off...on/off" type that will not stay "on" when you release it. It is spring loaded so there is no chance of it staying on and ruining the linear actuator motor (which happened to me.) I mounted the new one on the left hard bag because the switch was too big for any space I had on the handlebar. I can reach it easily.

You will probably find that you will not use the actuator all the time. You'll set it for what ever crown of the road you are driving on.... then leave it alone. It's the same for wind direction. Set it and leave it alone, until the wind or road changes.

I just posted some of my photos in the Albums section for everyone's viewing pleasure.

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AJ1200
Posted 1/5/2015 2:48 PM (#82004 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
yeah I went with a spring loaded on/off switch as well. I was going to put a car battery in my car but I think instead I will put an exact match of the bikes battery in there. I will be installing a gas tank to replace the one that it came with so I won't have room for a big battery. the car came with a 3 or 4 gal tank, I am going to replace it with either a 6 or 8 gal.
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jwshort
Posted 1/5/2015 3:45 PM (#82005 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


Elite Veteran

Posts: 818
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Location: Rapid City, SD
Hi Ace:
I have seen Motorvation sidecars with a gas tank under the sidecar. The tank is enclosed in the frame and is quite thin top to bottom. I don't know about the capacity. I would have to look at my literature. It is a factory job and doesn't take up room in the luggage area. We use that area for luggage when we travel.
Give Mary Sontag a call at Sibley and maybe they still do the "under the fame" tank.
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BiscuitsNGravy
Posted 1/5/2015 3:46 PM (#82006 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 33
25
Location: Gowrie, IA
I think you have some great ideas, Ace. I carry a 2 gallon can in the car, but I've been in situations where the tank was about empty and wondering if I'd make it to a gas station if I had to use the spare gas. But never had to do that. You might consider that gasoline weighs about 6.5 pounds if that would be an issue. But from the looks of your beautiful bike, I don't think that would be a problem. My best to you and your efforts.

BTW.. if you can take some photos of how your spare gas tank looks, I'd sure like to see them.
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AJ1200
Posted 1/7/2015 8:10 AM (#82037 - in reply to #82006)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
I think I'm going to give 1 good effort to clean out the gas tank that came with the sidecar before I toss it and buy a new one. I'm going to use carb cleaner and some kind of medium like small washers or marbles to act as a scrubber inside the tank. I looked at it again and I think it's just sludge in there and not rust.
I'll take some pics of it this weekend when I put the cleaner in it.
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Al Olme
Posted 1/7/2015 1:11 PM (#82041 - in reply to #82037)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


Expert

Posts: 1736
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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
You might want to consider taking your tank to a professional shop. I used "Tank Renew" to do the tank on my wife's little Honda C70. They did a great job at a reasonable price.
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New York Bear
Posted 1/11/2015 7:30 PM (#82097 - in reply to #80454)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


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caddypat - 10/2/2014 5:31 PM

hi,i have a formula II mounted to a kaw 1300 voyager . works fine. i think the kawasaki 1300 six cyl. is the heaviest bike on the planet.


I had a 1300, also, with a way too light sidecar on it, but man, what power, and downright scary on right turns without a monkey. I now have the big kawi 2000CC with a California sidecar, really good match, been on many long trips with it.
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AJ1200
Posted 2/13/2015 11:52 AM (#82802 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
so I decided to bring the tank to work today, I used a grinder and carefully cut the weld away around one edge to open it up
it was a mess inside but a little elbo grease and parts cleaner and it cleaned right up
biscuitsNgravy, here are a couple pics of the tank
I measured it today as I didn't know how much it would hold. turns out it is a 4 gal. tank so I am very pleased
just need to weld it back closed and prime it and put the carpet cover back on
I'll take some more pictures once I get it mounted back in the car



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Attachments SCT 001.JPG (292KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments SCT 004.JPG (317KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments SCT 005.JPG (333KB - 1 downloads)
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BiscuitsNGravy
Posted 2/13/2015 9:04 PM (#82810 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 33
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Location: Gowrie, IA
Wow, Ace!! Great photos! With you taking the initiative to put that 4 gal. tank back in service, you won't regret it. Thanks again for the photos. BnG
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AJ1200
Posted 2/17/2015 1:57 PM (#82900 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
well it looks like I spoke too soon, getting the old tank open and cleaned out went well,,,,,,,,,,,,, however getting it to weld back was another story
it looks as though all those years took it's toll. we tried and tried to get a good clean weld to seam it back together but no matter how good it looked we could not seal it
we kept getting leaks from under the weld. must just be we couldn't get it clean deep down in the metal and it just won't bond back together properly
SO it will hit the scrap metal bin and I will move a different direction

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