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motorvation form II
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AJ1200
Posted 9/29/2014 5:34 AM (#80357)
Subject: motorvation form II



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Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
would a motorvation formula II be heavy enough to mount on a 1500 Goldwing safely
I see one in for sale section and would like to move on it if it would work good

Edited by AJ1200 9/29/2014 5:35 AM
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oldriders
Posted 9/29/2014 8:54 AM (#80361 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: RE: motorvation form II


Member

Posts: 31
25
Location: Parma, OH
I have a Motorvation Form 2 mounted on my HD ElectraGlide. It's perfect foe a big bike. I've have a Ural and a California 2 and the Mortorvation Form2 is the best of the lot. You won't be disapointed.
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AJ1200
Posted 9/29/2014 8:57 AM (#80362 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



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Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
that is what I wanted to hear. I have done some research and found it has been used on the 1500 a lot. this would be my first sidecar so I want to be sure I make a good decision
how is the stock or standard seat for the passenger on long hauls

Thanks for the input
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oldriders
Posted 9/29/2014 9:29 AM (#80363 - in reply to #80362)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


Member

Posts: 31
25
Location: Parma, OH
The stock seat is good. Good and wide for lots of room. Remenber to grease the three grease fittings on the torshion bar befor you mount it. You will LOVE the electric lean



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jaydmc
Posted 9/29/2014 11:15 AM (#80368 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


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It should work fine, Make sure you get proper bike specific mounts for the sidecar (we offer these) also if it is a very old Motovation sidecar they once used balls on their lower mounts clamped with aluminum that tends to turn into powder so if this is a really old one, you will need to up grade to the newer type mounts.
When we mount Motovation sidecars we do away with their entire lower mounts. We make a custom "clamp" that slides into the frame to replace Motovations clamp. We make this clamp double walled as the 1 1/4 inch tube clamps tend to flex to much and have been known to bend. On the other end of the double walled clamp we step it up to 1 1/2 inch and then use our standard "bosses" that attach to the mounts using 5/8 inch hiem joints. We find this to be much more robust then the way Motovation builds the sidecars.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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sfchock
Posted 9/29/2014 1:41 PM (#80372 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: RE: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 39
25
Location: Fairport, NY
I am very pleased with my Formula II GL1100A rig. The mounts that were supplied with the car, in my opinion are fantastic. Take a look at Motorvation's site on how to attach the car and bike. I don't think you will be disappointed.



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AJ1200
Posted 9/29/2014 2:17 PM (#80375 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



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Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
Thanks for the input,
oldriders that is a nice looking rig
sfchock what year is your wing, looks like an 1100
I think I am getting a heck of a deal here, William is going to load it up and deliver it tomorrow. we worked out the details today.
I am very excited and looking forward to putting it on my ride. I believe this unit has all the newer upgraded mounting hardware as well as elec. lean and front shock stabilizer
I will be doing lots of research on mounting and adjusting and prob. asking a few questions here once I get started
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dawg gone
Posted 9/29/2014 4:33 PM (#80378 - in reply to #80375)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


Regular

Posts: 79
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Location: Deckerville, Wa.
I would check with Motorvation they are very easy to deal with (will listen to what you want and not try to sell you the whole store) and less expensive
dale
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AJ1200
Posted 9/29/2014 4:41 PM (#80379 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
thanks dawg I will remember that, good thing is the car came off a 1500 so I'm hoping that will make this easier
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AJ1200
Posted 10/1/2014 5:41 AM (#80411 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
It's official, I am the proud owner of a sidecar,, it my be a couple weeks before I can get started with mounting it but I'm sure I'm going to need some help to get it right
I'm looking forward to this new side of riding
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sfchock
Posted 10/2/2014 12:08 AM (#80436 - in reply to #80375)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 39
25
Location: Fairport, NY
1982 GL1100A. I have had it since 98 and put the Formula II on it in 09 or so. Works well for me, Loaded I have to downshift for longer hills but for the most part travels well. Gas mileage is about 30.
By the way mine was installed on a 1500 prior to my ownership.

Edited by sfchock 10/2/2014 12:10 AM
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caddypat
Posted 10/2/2014 5:31 PM (#80454 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


Member

Posts: 24
0
Location: Astoria, or.
hi,i have a formula II mounted to a kaw 1300 voyager . works fine. i think the kawasaki 1300 six cyl. is the heaviest bike on the planet.
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Hack'n
Posted 10/2/2014 5:39 PM (#80455 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Expert

Posts: 4833
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Location: Boise, Idaho
GL has them beat by around 150#Dry weight.
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AJ1200
Posted 10/3/2014 9:48 AM (#80467 - in reply to #80455)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
OK time for my first question, my rig has got a front stabilizer shock that connects to the front fork, I have wheel covers on my bike. am I going to have to cut a hole in it or give it up to use the shock
where is the correct mounting point for the shock. I think I read the higher I mount it the better it works
looks like sfchock has one mounting about caliper height
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jaydmc
Posted 10/3/2014 10:02 AM (#80468 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


Expert

Posts: 1490
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We find that if your mounts are done well and every thing is stout, the steering head bearings are in good order (some times we will slightly over tighten them by about 10 inch pounds) and the front tire is in good order a damper more often then not is not needed. A damper will make your steering effort harder all the time which is the last thing you need. Often just changing the toe setting by an 1/8 of an inch either way will also make a front end shake go away. I would try it first and see if you can make it work with out a damper.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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Hack'n
Posted 10/3/2014 10:44 AM (#80470 - in reply to #80467)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Expert

Posts: 4833
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Location: Boise, Idaho
If you find that you need a steering damper to control excessive wheel wobble, the best mounting position is at 90 degrees from the fork angle. This will eliminate the bump steer effect.

Lonnie
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AJ1200
Posted 10/3/2014 12:21 PM (#80471 - in reply to #80470)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



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Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
OK thanks, I will try it without it first
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AJ1200
Posted 10/4/2014 12:02 PM (#80489 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



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Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
time ask for help, I am working on getting the mounts on mybike, it is a 97 1500 SE Goldwing
I have the front top mount installed, had to remove the fan to get the bracket in.
I see I have to drill a hole in the gussett webbing just below the seal for the top rear mount
I see I have to drill a hole in the frame webbing just behind the swingarm bolt for the lower rear mount
the thing I don't get is the bottom front mount, the instructions say to use an existing bolt hole and just enlarge and tap it, the only holes I see is for the crash bars and the one that goes into the cross tube frame that goes from each side frames
so what am I supposed to use for that lower mount
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AJ1200
Posted 10/5/2014 5:57 AM (#80499 - in reply to #80489)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
OK so I got it figured out, after Isted I went back out to mount the other 3 and after looking again it made sense
I now have the car mounted and just need to get it adjusted. I took it for a little spin around my neiborhood,I knew it wasn't set up right but it looked close so I made a quick maiden
the hadlebars shake at very slow speed then smooths out, it had a very bad vibration that felt like the car was bouncing at about 25 mph, when I went past it would smooth out. is this from toe adj.

new question, when I make the original adjustments should I do it with the air system empty or at the pressure I will be riding
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Al Olme
Posted 10/5/2014 11:59 AM (#80502 - in reply to #80499)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II


Expert

Posts: 1736
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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Congratulations on getting the initial "plumbing" done.

ALL adjustments should be done with the rig loaded as it will be [most of the time] while you are riding. That means with the air adjusted to normal riding position AND the bike and sidecar loaded as well. You need to come up with a way to simulate your weight and the weight in the sidecar. Many folks will get a little help from a friend and while they are sitting on the bike, have the friend use ratchet straps to tie the suspension down so it will stay at the "loaded position" when you get off the bike.

Your wobbles are common and can be caused by so many things that it's not even worth starting here. First get the alignment right. Some of the wobbles will go away by themselves. After that we can start making suggestions to minimize the rest. Not many rigs are COMPLETELY wobble free.

Don't forget to get your air pressure up to snuff [maybe a bit in the high side] and make sure your steering head bearing is well adjusted, also maybe a little bit on the tight side.
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pago cruiser
Posted 10/5/2014 1:34 PM (#80504 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 34
25
Location: Tucson - its a dry heat
I've built 4 rigs now (Triumph T-Bird, KLR, GL1200, Harley XR1200) and every one of them needed a steering damper due to a 25-30mph wobble. Slower, no problem. Faster, no problem. With the steering damper (Motorvations is the best, albeit rather pricey) no problem at any speed. Another advantage of the damper is that on high speed corners with bumps in the middle, the damper keeps the forks/wheel from responding to the bumps by trying to turn.

You might want to list your setup numbers; others may be able to help; but I could never get the slow speed wobble you describe to go away without the damper; not from lack of trying. On the Valkyrie I'm using 53" track (outside bike tire to outside hack tire), 9" lead, and 1/2" toe-in. These numbers worked well on the GL1200.

Have a an F2 on GL1200 for about 4 years, maybe 30,000 miles. Great hack. So good, that I'm upgrading the tug to a Valkyrie, and am fitting another F2 to it.

One thing REALLY important - be sure you are setting the rig up on level ground. Part of my shop patio has a 1.5" slope in about 6 feet for rainwater control. If you are in thus situation, you can get a couple pieces of 6-7' STRATGHT tube or flat members, and put them on the ground at hack wheel to pusher wheel, then hack wheel to front wheel. Then place spacers under the bike to get the two bike and hack wheels at exactly the same elevation. I ended up with a 3/8" piece of flat steel in front, and a 8" length of 2x4 with a couple shims for the back. You do not want the bile level fore-aft; let the bike float as it wants. Sounds like a pita, but it prolly took longer to type this than to do it...

Not to divert your thread, but did you pull the torsion bar to lube the bearing ends? I had to pull my adjuster yesterday in order to rotate the spline gear piece a couple notches; that part is easy. But my hack frame sat in a field for apparently several years, and the torsion bars bearing in the frame bosses are very tight. I don't know enough about the torsion bar to just go beating it out of the frame with a hammer. I'd HATE to get it clear of one side then hear a big TWANG.... like maybe the pre-load on the torsion bar being released? Is there a preload on the torsion bar?

While Gary at Motorvation is very helpful, cannot call him on a Sunday... Has anybody pulled the torsion bar from the frame to grease the pretty crude bearings?



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AJ1200
Posted 10/7/2014 8:03 AM (#80511 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 277
100100252525
Location: Savannah Ga
I haven't done any measurements yet, I hope to get to that in the next day or 2 and get it adjusted and start riding it
I am a little unhappy that I will have to cut 3 separate panels for 3 of the mounts and the 4th I will have to cut the seat base under the cover to allow the seat to bolt back on
I'm tempted to buy 3 used panels and just paint them to match the bike and cut them instead of the ones on it, that way if I find this isn't for me I can put them back un undamaged
Yep I would not like the thought of a spring loaded torsion bar coming apart, I haven't greased anything yet but plan to take care of all that as well as check wheel bearings
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sfchock
Posted 10/7/2014 10:55 AM (#80517 - in reply to #80511)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 39
25
Location: Fairport, NY
AJ, I did purchase sacrificial panels for my 82. I wanted to be able to sell it as perfect as I can without the car if I ever decide to switch. No time soon.
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AJ1200
Posted 10/7/2014 11:33 AM (#80518 - in reply to #80517)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Veteran

Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
I'm really hoping the car works out good for us.
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pago cruiser
Posted 10/8/2014 1:06 AM (#80536 - in reply to #80357)
Subject: Re: motorvation form II



Member

Posts: 34
25
Location: Tucson - its a dry heat
Well, I got no timely answers to my torsion bar question, so went ahead and ...carefully...slowly tapped/hammered the torsion bar/swingarm assembly out of the bearings. No problems, no TWANGGGGGG.
Biggest problem was the bearing grease was hard as metal. had to wire wheel it off, followed by carb cleaner and steel wool. Cleaned it all up, threw a lite coat of grease on the bar (the original grease on the bar was in excellent shape), some more in the bearings, and re-assembled.

If you need to do it, it's a piece of cake. Be sure to check the side play as well. I believe it's supposed to be set with shims, and held in with a 0.25" roll pin on the outside of the plate that slides onto the splines - my other F2 hack had this. But this one had quite a bit of slop, held together with a rusty cotter pin...

Definitely check the wheel bearings; mine had a lot of play as well; should be easy to find at a decent bearing house.

Good luck on the rig. They can really be a lot of fun.
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