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Kymco sidecar rig
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spsmitty
Posted 12/3/2014 10:21 PM (#81461)
Subject: Kymco sidecar rig


Member

Posts: 8
0
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Hey, I am brand new to this site because I am just now trying to build my first sidecar rig. I have other motorcycles and have been riding for over 40 yrs. I have an '09 Kymco 500ri scooter that I am trying to install an Indel Classic Rocket sidecar on. I was wondering if any of you have ever put a hack on one of these scooters? I have a universal motorcycle mount kit and it looks like it will work with maybe a few small modifications. I have seen on this site where someone posted the mounting points they used on a Suzuki Burgman which gives me some ideas. Any help anyone can offer such as pics, links, or descriptions is much appreciated. Hopefully this will give me the bug for more!
Steve

Edited by spsmitty 12/3/2014 10:24 PM
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jaydmc
Posted 12/4/2014 10:49 AM (#81467 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: Re: Kymco sidecar rig


Expert

Posts: 1492
1000100100100100252525
I would start by checking with the company that sold this to you. When we sell a sidecar we feel it is our obligation to make sure that it is usable which is why we try and avoid "universal" type mounts as they seldom work well if at all. Any reputable company should be able to support their product and make sure that it can be used.
We have not done a Kymco or I would be of more help. You more then likely found a post from a few weeks ago showing Burgman mounts done by another company using a mix of "universal" type mounts including one of the clamp we make which we would never use on a Burgman in the mannor that they did. I then posted a link to our full instructions. I will link it again.
Some times with scooters you need to think way out side of the box for instance on the Honda Silverwing we use a single upper mounting point on the bike that we tie both the front and rear struts to as this allows for full use of the floor board while other companies tie the front strut in a more traditional manor which makes it so you can never move your leg forward on the floor boards. On the BMW C650 scooter we found nothing structurally that we felt was strong enough for the lower mounts to tie to on the right side of the bike. So we put the lower mounts on the left side of the bike and pass the sidecar frame under the bike for the lower mounts and then do the upper mounts in a much more standard way. This also made it really easy for us to design the left side mounts for this scooter for our customers who drive on the other side of the road. While on both the silverwing and the C650 we could have figured out a way to do the mounts standard, they would have required ugly involved external sub frames and would have been no stronger then what we came up with. Looks are important as well but not as important as structure.
BTW we have sidecars and mounts for your other two bikes. I have owned both the K1200LT and KLR's with sidecars. I find the K1200LT to be a great road bike with a sidecar and the KLR to be a blast in off pavement and even off road riding. We even run some AMA Enduro events with the KLR running either our Enduro sidecar, M72B or M72D sidecars and of our mounts are designed for your bikes and come with instructions as we would never consider telling you that you are on your own figuring out how to use a bunch of "universal" hardware.
If your supplier is unwilling or unable to help, if you send me a photo of your bike with the plastic off of the right side of the bike, I will give you some pointers.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
jay@dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Burgman 650 Instr 1-4-07.docx (1411KB - 8 downloads)
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spsmitty
Posted 12/7/2014 10:53 PM (#81551 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: RE: Kymco sidecar rig


Member

Posts: 8
0
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Jay, Thanks for the great advice. I have stripped the plastic off my scooter and put in a wheel chock in my shop floor. I have placed the sidecar frame beside the scooter and begun trying to fit it to the scooter with the universal mounting kit. The mounting kit that was supplied by saferwholesale.com is for a motorcycle and the front (main) attach point fitting will not adjust low enough for my sidecar to be level. They are supposed to be sending me a universal scooter mounting kit. Hopefully it will hang lower from the sidecar frame like I need. Steve from Trike Zone, in Ontario, Canada, sent me some great photos of the mounting brackets and attach points on a Kymco 500ri and Cozy sidecar rig they have in their inventory. I like the way they did the lower attach points but not too crazy about the upper mount which attaches to the grab handle on the rear seat. The pics did give me a clear idea on how to do the lower mounts. Hopefully the mounting kit saferwholsale.com is sending me will have similar hardware in it. I have learned that dealing with someone that sells thousands of items and does not specialize in a particular item is not the best place to buy. Cheapest price is not always the best way to go.
I am attaching some pics of the scooter sans plastic and of my first attempt at locating attachment points. These pics with the fittings from the motorcycle mounting kit. Jay, please feel free to make more suggestions as you see fit, especially concerning the upper attach points.
thanks,
Steve



(kymco bottom side 2.JPG)



(kymco frame in place.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments kymco bottom side 2.JPG (368KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments kymco frame in place.JPG (419KB - 0 downloads)
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spsmitty
Posted 12/7/2014 11:03 PM (#81552 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: Re: Kymco sidecar rig


Member

Posts: 8
0
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Downloads didn't go just as I hoped. More pics, hopefully not multiple downloads of the same pic. LOL



(kymco attach points (2).JPG)



(kymco attach points (3).JPG)



(kymco attach points (1).JPG)



(kymco frame behind grab rail.JPG)



(kymco grab rail.JPG)



(kymco sidecar frame in place.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments kymco attach points (2).JPG (427KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments kymco attach points (3).JPG (472KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments kymco attach points (1).JPG (418KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments kymco frame behind grab rail.JPG (442KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments kymco grab rail.JPG (398KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments kymco sidecar frame in place.JPG (464KB - 1 downloads)
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jaydmc
Posted 12/8/2014 10:32 AM (#81554 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: Re: Kymco sidecar rig


Expert

Posts: 1492
1000100100100100252525
Hard to tell a lot in the photo's however the lower mounts as shown are way to close together. In general "universal" clamps are not a great way to go. I would for the lower rear mount make a proper mount that replaces the center stand. This would move the lower rear mount aft and as such would give you getter triangulation and being a proper mount would not tend to slip and rotate. Not sure if it would work on this scooter but we have been known to on the upper rear in order to get a good strong mount cut out the bottom of the trunk and tie the mount to the left side of the bike.

Safer wholesale even if they sell a lot of different items they have a responsibility to their customers to make sure that the product they sell will work.
Any one else thinking of dealing with Safer I recommend checking the BBB about them and their parent company. The complaints last time I checked which as been about a year now were over 250
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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Peter Pan
Posted 12/8/2014 11:19 AM (#81559 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: Re: Kymco sidecar rig



Expert

Posts: 1886
1000500100100100252525
Location: San Isidro de Heredia, Costa Rica
Just a first impression from the last photo:
I feel like the sidecar tire is a bit too far back.
That reminds me to my MZ sidecar which tended strongly to dip the ground.
That effect was so tough that I was urged to mount a PE sliding patch in the right front corner for not to get caught by the typical cobblestones used where I grew up.

Too far to the front and you cannot turn the rig. It would be good to measure out the dimensions and post them here. Claude, Lonnie, Jay or one of the other installers will be able to give you the right spot where the sidecar tire should stand in relation to the bike's tires.
Have fun with the project, but stay on the safe side, as that are YOUR bones that will be risked.
Sven


Edited by Peter Pan 12/8/2014 11:22 AM
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spsmitty
Posted 12/8/2014 1:59 PM (#81565 - in reply to #81554)
Subject: Re: Kymco sidecar rig


Member

Posts: 8
0
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Thanks Jay. I am like you; I think I got a fit kit for a Royal Enfield Motorcycle. All the sites I have visited show fitment for a RE and the kit looks just like what they use. I just got off the phone with Artie at Saferwholesale.com and he admits that he doesn't know but he is depending on his warehouse manager, who knows all about sidecars to answer my questions. He insists they have ordered the proper kit for me and will be sending it out as soon as they get it.
I will keep you posted on this forum.
Steve
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spsmitty
Posted 12/8/2014 2:07 PM (#81566 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: Re: Kymco sidecar rig


Member

Posts: 8
0
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Sven, The literature I have read say the sidecar wheel should be 8 to 10 inches ahead of the rear wheel on the scooter. Right now it is just over 8 inches ahead. As soon as I get mounts that will allow proper adjustment I am going to try moving it a little farther forward. I am now looking at drilling a hole in the steel web that goes from the lower side frame rail and the center stand (just behind the guardian bell in the picture) to locate the rear lower mount. I have got to get away from the frame mounts that can slip or turn on the frame. Probably will cut a hole in the plastic near the grab rail on the seat and put a top mount directly off the upper frame tube there.
This is definitely not what Saferwholesale.com told me when I placed my order. They told me it was simply a bolt on installation.
Ride Safely,
Steve
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spsmitty
Posted 8/11/2015 6:28 PM (#85775 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: RE: Kymco sidecar rig


Member

Posts: 8
0
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Well folks, after many months I am close to having a useable sidecar rig. I had to fabricate a complete sub frame to attach the side car to. I have three lower mounts but only one upper mount. I have still got to figure out where to mount the forward upper mount. I have ridden the rig around town and it does ok except for a little head shake and a little too much flex between the scooter and the side car. I rode a friends sidecar rig today for a comparison (an early model R100RT with a ural side car) and really mine rides better than his in some respects. Here are some pics I took today. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Jay at DMC has already told me I need the front upper mount and need to move my back upper mount to a more straight up position.



(IMG_0818.JPG)



(IMG_0825.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_0818.JPG (443KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_0825.JPG (352KB - 2 downloads)
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spsmitty
Posted 8/11/2015 6:34 PM (#85776 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: RE: Kymco sidecar rig


Member

Posts: 8
0
Location: Warner Robins, GA
More pics



(IMG_0817.JPG)



(IMG_0822.JPG)



(IMG_0824.JPG)



(IMG_0826.JPG)



(IMG_0818.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_0817.JPG (420KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_0822.JPG (422KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_0824.JPG (485KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_0826.JPG (295KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_0818.JPG (443KB - 0 downloads)
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Peter Pan
Posted 8/11/2015 9:30 PM (#85779 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: Re: Kymco sidecar rig



Expert

Posts: 1886
1000500100100100252525
Location: San Isidro de Heredia, Costa Rica
Hello Steve,
Congratulations to the advance in your project.
The position of the sidecar wheel looks good now viewing it from other angles.
.
BUT THE MOUNTING CONSTRUCTION HAS ME PUZZLED...Did You hire Harvey the 2m tall "puka" to hold your sidecar in position?
I would not even have made a round on the farm with it.
Sorry, but we cannot disobey physical laws. If so we pay VERY EXPENSIVE...
I know 2 machine operators with crippled hands for much less uhhh---/negligence factor. (in fact for a simple 12$ check valve their maintenance engineer did not want to install / when I came back from hospital myself I took those 12$ out of my personall wallet and made the machine safer)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_biOeP2D_SI/UwdtvhHxC6I/AAAAAAAAAB4/2sI2u...

First steps first...please, before you ride out again get that front strut working.
Good luck.
Sven

Edited by Peter Pan 8/11/2015 9:44 PM




Attachments
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Attachments invisible_harvey.jpeg (49KB - 4 downloads)
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spsmitty
Posted 8/11/2015 11:04 PM (#85782 - in reply to #81461)
Subject: RE: Kymco sidecar rig


Member

Posts: 8
0
Location: Warner Robins, GA
I think I have figured out how to get another upper mount without blocking the floor board. I'll work on it as soon as the weather around middle Georgia gets a little cooler. Welding and grinding in 95 degree weather with high humidity is not fun.
Steve



(IMG_0818.JPG)



(IMG_0823.JPG)



(IMG_0818.JPG)



(IMG_0826.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_0818.JPG (443KB - 2 downloads)
Attachments IMG_0823.JPG (312KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_0818.JPG (443KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_0826.JPG (295KB - 0 downloads)
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