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mount question
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Dan Alexander
Posted 3/4/2015 8:45 AM (#83199)
Subject: mount question


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Posts: 14
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Can anybody tell me what type of sidecar mounts to the ones on this Wing?

http://pictures.dealer.com/m/motorepentignytc/1930/25eaa1fb50bd6f18...



Edited by Dan Alexander 3/4/2015 8:46 AM
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Peter Pan
Posted 3/4/2015 9:03 AM (#83200 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question



Expert

Posts: 1885
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Location: San Isidro de Heredia, Costa Rica
only 3 points??? I cannot see the back upper mounting point.
If it is so, then it doesn't look like a good idea to me for such a heavy bike.
Sven

Edited by Peter Pan 3/4/2015 9:05 AM
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Dan Alexander
Posted 3/4/2015 9:30 AM (#83201 - in reply to #83200)
Subject: Re: mount question


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I'm not sure if anything is up there or not, haven't seen the bike up close, just the pic. I'm wondering what the sidecar side mount looks like as it seems to be a clamp-on style

Edited by Dan Alexander 3/4/2015 9:31 AM
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VLAD
Posted 3/4/2015 10:12 AM (#83202 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: RE: mount question



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Location: DENVER, COLORADO
Ural and Dnepr sidecars use clamps to attach to round balls.
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jaydmc
Posted 3/4/2015 10:31 AM (#83203 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


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This is an early California mounting system with the small 5/8 inch balls that are known to fail on the bottom, Chances are the upper front mount is the old style frame clamp that was known to fail. The upper rear would have clamped to the crash bar which was a poor idea at best the way they did it. The lower rear is mounted significantly higher then the lower front which makes alignment difficult as when you change your lean out it changes your toe the wrong way. So if you are trying to fix a pull to the right, you would lean it left which causes the sidecar to toe out giving you more of a pull to the right so you then have to adjust your toe again, while it can be done it is a pain. The mounts we make for this bike put the lower rear mount under the muffler and aft of the main frame and our upper rear mount attaches to the frame of the bike not the crash bar.
And of course we do not use the ball type lower mounts as they do fail.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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Hack'n
Posted 3/4/2015 11:37 AM (#83204 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question



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Location: Boise, Idaho
You have early CSC mounts. The GL had a pre-1989 California Sidecar attached (foul rigged with the usage of the non structural bag guard for an attachment place).
The 1988 and earlier models used the tiny ball and collet mounts with an extruded "flower" locked in place with a 5/16" bolt for the lower sidecar mounts.
1989 and later CSC models use clevis type lower mounts incorporating 5/8" Heim joints (rod ends). The upper mounts retained the same 3/8" eyebolt and clevis.

DMC makes bolt on adjustable mounts to upgrade the early models to safe lower mounts.

The larger 30mm ball and collet mounts used on Some European and Chinese sidecars are quite safe to use.

The marble sized ball and collet of CSC and the aluminum collets of the early Motorvation sidecars are not.

Lonnie
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Dan Alexander
Posted 3/4/2015 3:03 PM (#83205 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


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Thanks very much Gents.

Now if I want to mount my Dnepr sidecar, will changing the lower balls to 30mm work well for the lowers? Then I'd get a new upper front and upper rear and Bob's your Uncle??

Or .... mount my Velorex which I think is bit too light.

I just got back from checking the bike out at the dealers and the wife really likes all the bling and it's in very good shape. Asking $1400

Edited by Dan Alexander 3/4/2015 3:07 PM
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VLAD
Posted 3/4/2015 3:08 PM (#83206 - in reply to #83205)
Subject: Re: mount question



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 411
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Location: DENVER, COLORADO
Old Velorex will not work. Newer will work. Dnepr with correct mounts will work too.
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Dan Alexander
Posted 3/4/2015 3:10 PM (#83207 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


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It's a 562 but not sure what year

I'm wondering if the Dnepr mounts with the collets can be retained

Edited by Dan Alexander 3/4/2015 3:11 PM
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jaydmc
Posted 3/4/2015 3:16 PM (#83208 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


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The Velorex is way to light for this bike and as such would not be safe nor handle well. The mounts on this bike are not safe, they will fail! I have had 3 of the 4 fail while riding a GL1100 with very similar mounts. My general manager worked at California sidecars and has had these fail before the sidecar ever left the parking lot. The Dnepr 30mm balls will be spaced totally wrong for this, the front lower is not adjustable and the lower rear is to far aft, so while you could change over to 30mm balls your sidecar will not come close to lining up with this set up and would not allow for wheel lead adjustment nor setting the sidecar to sit level. The way we do these is to first go with our mount set for the bike which is 100% bolt on current price is $775, Then on the sidecar you cut the lower front mount off and weld in a new lower front mount that is adjustable, we then also have you weld in a new lower rear mount further forward and then use our "boss and clamp" type mounts that attach to the lower mounts using 5/8 inch hiem joints. The parts to do this run $430, we do provide drawings as to how to make the changes to the sidecar.
You could weld 30mm balls to the mounts, then custom make lower attachment arms that you either make adjustable or hope to get right the first time, you will still need an upper rear and you will still have the upper front that is known to come apart but can be fixed by cross drilling and bolting it together. And you will still have a lower rear mount that is higher then the lower front mount making it hard to get the alignment correct.
Safety must always come first!
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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Dan Alexander
Posted 3/4/2015 3:24 PM (#83209 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


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Posts: 14
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Quick question ..... is it the balls themselves that fail or the mounts where it attaches to the bike?

I'll re-read your post a a few more times for clarity sake
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jaydmc
Posted 3/4/2015 3:26 PM (#83210 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


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Both, the balls can fail with as little as 75 LBS of force, the clamps are thin sheet steel and also wear and fail as do the balls wear down, and the clamps that go around the balls are no longer made.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
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Dan Alexander
Posted 3/4/2015 3:30 PM (#83211 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


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Posts: 14
0
I was wondering if the balls are changed and the clamps and then the sidecar modified to suit would be workable for around town use.

I should try and get that Moturist sidecar with mounts and the EML stuff and move it all to this bike, that other wing was finished.

Edited by Dan Alexander 3/4/2015 3:32 PM
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jaydmc
Posted 3/4/2015 3:34 PM (#83212 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


Expert

Posts: 1490
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Around town or the highway it does not matter safety is safety and must come first! So as long as every thing is done safe, then it will work. However, you need to decide if you want to be designing and fabricating or riding.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
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Dan Alexander
Posted 3/4/2015 3:36 PM (#83213 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


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Posts: 14
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Thanks Jay, time for some pondering
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Al Olme
Posted 3/4/2015 5:44 PM (#83215 - in reply to #83211)
Subject: Re: mount question


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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
"I should try and get that Moturist sidecar with mounts and the EML stuff and move it all to this bike, that other wing was finished."

OK, I'm confused. What EML stuff? The Moturist is an OK sidecar and a bit on the scarce side. I'd hate to see one go to the scrapper.
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Dan Alexander
Posted 3/4/2015 5:48 PM (#83216 - in reply to #83199)
Subject: Re: mount question


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Posts: 14
0
I was looking at another Wing for sale and it had a Moturist sidecar with EML leading links and EML 15" car type rims on it. The Wing was in pretty poor shape with over 200k km on it, hard to start, missfired and finally the starter wouldn't engage. Still wondering if I should make an offer and just move the good parts to the better Wing. $$ dependant of course. He's asking $4k, maybe I'd offer half of that

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/lcsAAOSwrklU164T/$_20.JPG

Edited by Dan Alexander 3/4/2015 5:54 PM
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