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Velorex wheel bearings binding
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Motocolumbo
Posted 3/31/2015 1:09 AM (#83675)
Subject: Velorex wheel bearings binding


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Location: Billings, MT
I replaced wheel bearings on a 2007 Velorex 562 and on tightening up the axle nut found they are binding. All the bearings are 6004. There are 2 inner and one outer bearing, and between them a spacer. There are locating grooves or ridges within the hub on both inner and outer sides, and a circlip that goes outboard of the outer bearing. I started by seating the innermost bearing on what I thought was its locating groove, which means I banged it in as far as it would go. Then the other inner bearing right on top of that. Then the middle spacer and the outer bearing. When I did this though, the outer bearing was sticking out too far. So I took them back out and instead seated the outer bearing all the way as far as it would go, put the spacer in, and inserted the 2 inner bearings, snugged it up, and it binds. It's not rubbing against the brake hub, but the bearings themselves are binding. I will say when I took it apart the axle nut was not torqued much at all, and with that amount of torque reapplied, there is no binding.
So, I'm not sure what my reference point for the bearings should be. I haven't tried pushing the outer bearing out until it is just at the circlip groove; that didn't seem right to me.
Has anyone else struggled with this?
Attached diagram may or may not make this more clear. Accidentally omitted from the drawing are the circlip and washer which lies outboard of that.
Thanks,
Brendan




(spacerdiagram 2_edited-1.jpg)



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jaydmc
Posted 3/31/2015 10:13 AM (#83676 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding


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You might check that the sidecar axle is not bent.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
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Al Olme
Posted 3/31/2015 12:09 PM (#83677 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: RE: Velorex wheel bearings binding


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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
If you go to...

http://www.velorexusa.com/Instruction_pdf/suspension_ins.pdf

there is a diagram that shows the proper assembly order. It doesn't talk about "how far things go in" but it does offer some help. You also might want to ask Velorex at (516) 972-1703 PARTS/TECH SUPPORT.

Good luck.
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Hack'n
Posted 3/31/2015 12:13 PM (#83678 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding



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Location: Boise, Idaho
You show two inner bearings? There is only one inner and one outer wheel bearing.

FYI: If the Velorex axle nut is tightened too much it will bind up the bearings from side pressure.
Adjust the tightness similar to a Timken bearing, where you snug it up and relax it. Tighten the nut while spinning the wheel. You want O drag on the wheel and no looseness if you wobble the wheel. Back off and pin the nut.

If you still have a problem it could be caused by "banging" on the inner race of the bearings. You should only apply pressure to the outer race. Or it could be a bent axle.

Lonnie

Edited by Hack'n 3/31/2015 12:19 PM
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Motocolumbo
Posted 4/1/2015 1:59 AM (#83686 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: RE: Velorex wheel bearings binding


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Posts: 10
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Location: Billings, MT
Thanks for the feedback guys. Jay I did verify that the axle is not bent with a straightedge. Al, I had looked at that diagram. I thought it might have referred to the older cars as it doesn't match my parts and seems to show unsealed bearings. The bearings I took out and that I replaced are sealed roller balls. Lonnie, I bought this sidecar used from you a few years ago. I think it was from an ad on this forum. A friend of yours who works in the North Dakota oilfields delivered it for me. I think you said it had been on some kind of Suzuki and didn't have many miles on it. It sure didn't seem to be very high mileage. I would be surprised if anyone had replaced these, but maybe. I must admit I have never seen 2 bearings stacked on top of each other directly like that before. When I took the wheel off originally the nut was sure not very snug. So what you are saying about backing off the nut is somewhat reassuring. The wheel spins free when nut is not very tight but starts to bind with about 10 pounds of torque which sure doesn't seem very tight to me. Pictures show the spacer and washers that lie outboard of the outer bearing and also the original bearings that I had replaced with same size SKF.

Edited by Motocolumbo 4/1/2015 2:04 AM




(IMG_3717_2.JPG)



(IMG_3719_2.JPG)



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Hack'n
Posted 4/1/2015 12:31 PM (#83690 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding



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That sidecar was only used twice before the previous owner bought a BMW with a sidecar, traded the Suzuki in and sold it back to us.

Velorex USA hasn't upgraded the parts book in regards to the 20mm axle models. I know that the Cruiser and Tour models were designed to support heavier middleweight (Cruiser) bikes so that may explain the two inner bearings.

The 562 Standard, Cruiser and Tour models introduced in late 2004 or early 2005 were the first with the new suspension with 20mm axles.

Why did you take it apart in the first place?
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Motocolumbo
Posted 4/1/2015 2:50 PM (#83695 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding


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Posts: 10
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Location: Billings, MT
"Why did you take it apart in the first place?"
-exactly. It was doing great until I started working on it.
I was changing the tire and one of the bearings felt notchy, which ended up being from the seal being slightly damaged and rubbing. After removal the bearings actually looked ok once I pried off the offending seal and flattened it out a bit. By that point I had already forked over $ for a new set.
Brendan
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Motocolumbo
Posted 4/2/2015 12:13 AM (#83711 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding


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Posts: 10
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Location: Billings, MT
I don't know, do you think less than 10 pounds torque is too loose? It seems kind of scary.
Brendan
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AJ1200
Posted 4/2/2015 8:55 AM (#83721 - in reply to #83711)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding



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Location: Savannah Ga
I can't speak for this with regards to sidecar experience, However I can in regards to the bearing set up. Sealed bearings are roller balls inside a sealed case not tapered rollers. When you have sealed bearings with the center collar design between the bearings the collar only touches the inner race of the bearings, the outer washer only touches the inner race of the bearing, the inner bearing should ride firmly against the back of the spindal on the inner race only. you want to tighten the nut so that the inner races are firmly secured to each other via the collar in that they can't shift or move on the spindal. the bearing placement in the hub determines proper wheel possition on the spindal, if your spacers are off on one side or the other or in the middle between the bearings, when you tighten them you are pulling the inner race away from the outer race and this makes them bind up. sealed bearing have to have constant pressure along the spindal or mounting point so that the bearings can turn freely and not move side to side. most sealed bearings I have installed over the years required very high torque values to keep them from being able to shift in the spindal under loads. most also have a clip or snap ring to insure correct placement in the hub, but not always

from looking at your drawing and the link added, you should be able to install the bearings in the hub, be sure to put the spacer or collar inside, it should create a tight fit no slack or space between the bearings and spacer, when installing in the hub use something just a fraction smaller than the outer race of the bearing to drive them into the hub, do not hit the inner race or apply pressure to it for installing. make sure your spindal has a squared off edge where the bearing mates up (at the seal )if not there may be a small washer with a tapered side needed to square it up then you should be able to just slide the hub on and tighten it, if this binds you have something that isn't matching up between the bearing config and the hub assy. itself

on a side note, I have seen applications where 2 bearings were stacked together, there is a small washer or spacer that goes between them to keep the inner races spaced just enough to not allow the outer races to touch
not saying this is correct in your application, just that I know it's done












Edited by AJ1200 4/2/2015 8:56 AM
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Peter Pan
Posted 4/2/2015 10:33 AM (#83723 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding



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a personel experiance from work.
Measure the ridge distance and the inner spacer tube They have to be identical within 0.05mm=0,002".
Often the inner spacer gets worn and does not have the same distance as the outer seats any more. or when you work with 2 spacers one might be worn. Then I make new ones or grind them to identical heights on the surface grinder as set. In 95% then problems will be gone.
Sven

Edited by Peter Pan 4/2/2015 10:35 AM
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Motocolumbo
Posted 4/3/2015 12:33 PM (#83745 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding


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Posts: 10
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Location: Billings, MT
Thanks for those points Ace and Sven. One of my problems is that I'm not sure which reference point to use, as far as how deep to seat the outer bearing. If I drive the outer bearing all the way onto its seat or outer ridge in my drawing it's about 1/8 inch deeper than the circlip. The spacer length makes the inner bearings then way outboard of the inner ridge or what you would normally think of as it's seat, by like 1/2 inch or so. So the inner bearing isn't riding on a seat. This arrangement does seem to place the wheel where it should be with respect to the brake hub, so that's what I'm going with. I admit it has been pretty finicky getting the spacer squared properly and perfectly concentric with the bearings' inner races so I probably need to do be more careful with that. The spacer doesn't have an outer collar that would centralize it within the hub like I have seen in other applications.
Brendan

Edited by Motocolumbo 4/3/2015 12:39 PM
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AJ1200
Posted 4/3/2015 2:28 PM (#83747 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding



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Posts: 277
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Location: Savannah Ga
OK I understand what your saying

however I would advise you reconsider this a little, for your hub and bearing config to be correct and safe the inner bearing needs to be fully seated into the hub and the outer bearing needs to be fully seated into the hub with the spacer between them to allow you to tighten them properly on the axle, this allows the bearings to be tight on the axle and the hub to be tight between the bearings and nothing can shift or move under a load
if seating the inner bearing fully makes the hub ride back to far then you need to space it out, could be why there were 2 bearings, also if the hub is as deep as your drawing it may be designed that way. if it sits like it should then measure from the inner bearing to the ridge for the outer bearing and make your spacer that size
you can use a small socket or ratchet extention to align the spacer with the bearing for installing purposes







Edited by AJ1200 4/3/2015 4:02 PM
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AJ1200
Posted 4/21/2015 3:17 PM (#84035 - in reply to #83675)
Subject: Re: Velorex wheel bearings binding



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motocolumbo
did you get your wheel bearing issue resolved? what did you have to do to correct it
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