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Turning Force required
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billington92
Posted 4/10/2015 4:12 PM (#83852)
Subject: Turning Force required


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Posts: 6
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Hi I’m new to sidecar riding; I’ve just set up my first outfit with the help of people on this forum.

Here is a link to some images of my outfit.

http://www.mrbillington.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bike.htm

It’s a UK outfit, hence the sidecar is on the left hand side. I made the sidecar with the help of my father. The bike is a Yamaha 900 Diversion ( not sold in the USA ) which weighs about 239 Kg (526 pounds).

I have to apply equal force to the handle bars to turn either left or right. This is the first outfit I have ridden so it feels like quite a bit of effort is required to turn. How can I tell if to much force is necessary to turn or are all outfits just like that?

Thanks for any advice.
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jaydmc
Posted 4/10/2015 5:00 PM (#83853 - in reply to #83852)
Subject: Re: Turning Force required


Expert

Posts: 1493
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When ever you convert from three to two wheels you end up with heavy steering unless you reduce trail on the front of the bike. To reduce trail the front wheel needs to move forward in relationship to the steering head. This can be done many different ways, a few are leading link front ends, leading legs, triple tree's that change the angle of the forks, off set plates, changing to forks where the axle is ahead of the main body of the fork and many others, this has been covered many times on this forum, take some time to look around on the forum, you will find lots of answers.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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Sidcar
Posted 4/10/2015 5:23 PM (#83854 - in reply to #83852)
Subject: Re: Turning Force required


Regular

Posts: 75
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Nice looking outfit. If your near Towcester, Northants, there's a Sidecar Day at Jack's Hill Cafe, Towcester on Sunday 19th April. There will be plenty of people to advises you there, including my self if the old BSA gearbox holds together.

Sid
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Sidcar
Posted 4/10/2015 5:28 PM (#83855 - in reply to #83852)
Subject: Re: Turning Force required


Regular

Posts: 75
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Nice looking outfit. If your near Towcester, Northants, there's a Sidecar Day at Jack's Hill Cafe, Towcester on Sunday 19th April. There will be plenty of people to advise you there, including myself if the old BSA gearbox holds together.

Sid
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Hack'n
Posted 4/11/2015 3:12 PM (#83860 - in reply to #83852)
Subject: RE: Turning Force required



Expert

Posts: 4833
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Location: Boise, Idaho
A solo bike being a single track vehicle turns quite easily. A slight push on the handlebar and it will bank into a turn.
Stock bikes have extended trail to enhance self centering for straight line riding. The positive caster also helps centering after making a turn.
A two track (auto or sidecar rig) or three track (Trike) vehicle requires actual steering input to accomplish the same turn.
A sidecar tug with stock trail steers like an auto without power steering.
Reducing the trail by however means also reduces steering effort. It also reduces the self centering ability.
Regardless, a sidecar pilot should always keep one hand on the bars to circumvent nose wiggle (at any speed).

Lonnie
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billington92
Posted 4/12/2015 5:01 AM (#83866 - in reply to #83852)
Subject: Re: Turning Force required


Member

Posts: 6
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Thanks for these pointers.

So I need to reduce the trail; I can do this by dropping the forks through the yokes. This should reduce the fork angle hence reducing the trail … right?

I was thinking about dropping the forks by 10 mm as a starting point then test ride the outfit for improved turning or increased wobble. After this I can move up or down in increments of 3 mm until I achieve comfortable handle, which I guess is some kind of trade off between light handling and wobble.

Does my logic seem OK so far?
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Hack'n
Posted 4/12/2015 2:28 PM (#83875 - in reply to #83866)
Subject: Re: Turning Force required



Expert

Posts: 4833
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Location: Boise, Idaho
I've used this method several times. The only thing you have to look out for is interference when bottomed out.
One can also raise the rear with shocks, or larger diameter rear tire to get a bit more of trail reduction.

Lonnie
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AJ1200
Posted 4/13/2015 11:37 AM (#83889 - in reply to #83875)
Subject: Re: Turning Force required



Veteran

Posts: 281
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Location: Savannah Ga
this is interesting, so if you lower your front by letting the fork tubes raise up through the triple tree it will reduce the trail. how effective is this as far as helping to ease steering input.
will it increase an already present slow speed wobble or possibly reduce it. does this also change the rake

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Hack'n
Posted 4/13/2015 12:28 PM (#83890 - in reply to #83852)
Subject: Re: Turning Force required



Expert

Posts: 4833
2000200050010010010025
Location: Boise, Idaho
These are minor changes which can ease nose wiggle somewhat. LL's, altered trees and such accomplish more radical changes in the trail.
The rake is predetermined by the neck bearing angle from horizontal.

These are tweaks that may ease nose wiggle in some cases.
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nichloasjerry1
Posted 4/14/2015 4:56 PM (#83908 - in reply to #83852)
Subject: Re: Turning Force required


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Posts: 11
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First of all welcome to the Forum and buddy you got an Awesome Bike
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