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New to us rig help with gl1500
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fastjoe
Posted 7/31/2015 6:08 PM (#85604)
Subject: New to us rig help with gl1500



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Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
We acquired a new to us rig with a champion 2+2 car attached to a gl1500. Drove it home yesterday.
The bike has 120,000 on it as a solo bike then the hack was added and the rig parked before it could be driven due to medical issues.
It has great bells and whistles, easy steer, electric lean and brakes on the car etc. Huge improvement over our last rig.
The rig is setup perfectly, it seems. No troubles with it, DMC did it. However I've no experience with Aspencades.
Unfortunately the previous owner is deceased so I can't ask him any questions about the bike.


My issues are with the bike, and I hope some of you can help me sort them out. I know nothing about big Honda's but it looks like that will change now.

Brakes:

I was not always using the integrated brakes correctly when driving it home it seems, but even when I mashed both the front and back pedals hard at any speed I could not get the tires anywhere to lock or come close. I tried braking hard at different speeds and though the rig stops straight it doesn't really brake hard.
The brakes smell like organic pads. The rear rotor is heavily grooved also. Both front rotors seem fine as if the integrated brakes aren't working well. I would think that one of the fronts should be equally affected.
Not sure why it's not. Again no experience with integrated brake systems either. I am about to buy ebc HH pads but haven't yet because I am new to the Honda and don't know if there is perhaps a problem with using the them on the original rotors. These are my go to pads that I run on my other bikes if they have stopping issues.
I'm looking at buying a new EBC rear rotor because the price is lower than Honda. EBC also claims better friction from their product.
Any thoughts on my choice of brakes? Any information on proportional valves or other stuff that might be under all that plastic on the wing?

The car brakes are integrated into the rear pedal. The rig always stops dead straight no swinging at all. Just not as quickly as I would like.
The whole issue seems to be with the bike not the car.
Help.


Reverse:
Reverse doesn't work though it did recently according to the person selling it.
The neutral light is not working either and I am guessing this might have something to do with reverse not working.
Anyone know if this is most likely the issue.

I'd like to put a car tire on it.
Do I need to grind down the bead lock humps on the floor of the wheel to give the bead the best chance of seating properly? Can someone suggest a tire that is up to the task as I have never attempted a darkside tire on a sidecar.
Anything you have had to do to get it mounted that is different from normal ?etc.
I was looking for 165 55 16 but can't seem to consistent results searching for it online. Is this a good size or is their something better.
Do I want a winter tire, performance tire, etc, etc. How much air should I run in it to start.


Pulling away from a light:
I am a Vtwin driver mostly. Our other hack is an EVO. I am used to a lot of torque down low on large displacement bikes.
I have driven 2 stroke road bikes so I understand getting the rev's up etc. Had early triumphs, a Zudapp, a Benelli.
The original owner of this bike put on after market mufflers to make it louder. I have no way to know if he re jetted the carbs or not. (It has 2):
When it is warmed up it wants to stall when you go to move the hack. You have to have the revs probably over 3500 to get it to move. Once it moves a little it seems to have some torque. However if you were to rev to 3000 it would just stall if it was completely warmed up. Don't know if this is SOP for a wing or not?
I'm thinking it needs more jetting down low because of the mufflers?? Sound right?

Cruising:
Also at what speed is OK to shift into 5th with a hack this size. It seems happier in 5th only at 65 or so on level ground.
Could just be me. I am hoping the car tire raises the rear ratio to allow 5th or OD at lower road speeds.
How durable are the transmission and clutches in these? Should I be at all concerned with the high mileage on the bike.
The tranny shifts good but feels a little loose. Well broke in. Not sure if I should worry or just enjoy it.

Mileage and extra gas tanks.
At 65 it is getting 25mpg on flat level fairly straight roads. Mileage gets much worse in the mountains. I am hoping that putting a car tire on will effect the mileage favorably due to it's (I hope) smaller diameter.
I need to carry extra gas but want to carry it safely incase of a wreck. Suggestions?

Seat:
OMG this is not the drivers seat we want.
This seat has been customized and we are not sure exactly how. However it seems quite low. The wife has long legs 38" inseam and this seat isn't working for her as a driver. It bothers my bad hip too. We are wondering if a stock seat is better for someone with long legs or where to really begin our search for one that will fit her better.
I don't want to order seats only to find out they are worse. Any help?

I am trying to dig up whatever service records can be found now to see what maintenance should be done. One fork seal maybe leaking and I am not sure if the timing belts have ever been changed or not. Any comments on Goldwing maintenance with a hack would be appreciated.

Thanks guys!
PS can anyone point me to any exceptional wing forums for technical stuff?

Edited by fastjoe 7/31/2015 8:05 PM
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OldSchool_IsCool
Posted 7/31/2015 8:48 PM (#85605 - in reply to #85604)
Subject: Re: New to us rig help with gl1500



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 410
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Location: Michigan - Kalamazoo
A good place to go to ask questions about Goldwings is www.goldwingfacts.com. Great group of guys and gals over there.
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fastjoe
Posted 8/1/2015 4:36 PM (#85616 - in reply to #85605)
Subject: Re: New to us rig help with gl1500



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
Thank you I posted some of my questions about the bike there.
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phlaug
Posted 8/1/2015 9:53 PM (#85619 - in reply to #85604)
Subject: Re: New to us rig help with gl1500



Regular

Posts: 87
252525
Location: Durham, Connecticut
*The GoldWing forums are great.

*I'll give you my perspective on a couple of your points, as I'm running a GL1500 with a California Sidecar Company Friendship III, also with easy steer and the electric lean adjuster, so we're pretty similar...

>We acquired a new to us rig with a champion 2+2 car attached to a gl1500. Drove it home yesterday.
>The bike has 120,000 on it as a solo bike then the hack was added and the rig parked before it could be driven due to medical issues.
>It has great bells and whistles, easy steer, electric lean and brakes on the car etc. Huge improvement over our last rig.
>The rig is setup perfectly, it seems. No troubles with it, DMC did it. However I've no experience with Aspencades.
>Unfortunately the previous owner is deceased so I can't ask him any questions about the bike.

>Brakes:
>I was not always using the integrated brakes correctly when driving it home it seems, but even when I mashed both the front and back pedals hard at >any speed I could not get the tires anywhere to lock or come close. I tried braking hard at different speeds and though the rig stops straight it doesn't >really brake hard.
* I would start with a brake fluid drain. If the fluid is old it may not be giving you all the grab it should. I can get mine to stop pretty quickly, but at the end of the day you're talking about a big bike with a big sidecar -- don't expect to stop as quickly as you may have on other setups. (A couple times it has made me nervous, to be frank -- i have to flip a mental switch about braking distance on that rig versus my regular bikes (and even versus my Mini Cooper)).

>Reverse:
>Reverse doesn't work though it did recently according to the person selling it.
>The neutral light is not working either and I am guessing this might have something to do with reverse not working.
>Anyone know if this is most likely the issue.
* My reverse is funky, you have to keep your hand on it and sort of "feel" where it is. But at the end of the day I almost never use it (I can only think of using it once this year) -- plan ahead with parking in flat or slightly slanted areas, and I find the whole rig very easy to push). But a GW forum should tell you if that N light is preventing R from engaging.

Pulling away from a light:
I am a Vtwin driver mostly. Our other hack is an EVO. I am used to a lot of torque down low on large displacement bikes.
I have driven 2 stroke road bikes so I understand getting the rev's up etc. Had early triumphs, a Zudapp, a Benelli.
The original owner of this bike put on after market mufflers to make it louder. I have no way to know if he re jetted the carbs or not. (It has 2):
When it is warmed up it wants to stall when you go to move the hack. You have to have the revs probably over 3500 to get it to move. Once it moves a little it seems to have some torque. However if you were to rev to 3000 it would just stall if it was completely warmed up. Don't know if this is SOP for a wing or not?
I'm thinking it needs more jetting down low because of the mufflers?? Sound right?
* That's not that dissimilar from mine. I chalked it up to age and just run it. You didn't say what year your Honda is, but if it's a 1500 best case is 2000. I don't know how much I'd expect from a 15 year old bike with a 120,000 miles. But the forums will probably have guys with 1990s with 300,000 miles running like a top. LOL


>Seat:
>OMG this is not the drivers seat we want.
>This seat has been customized and we are not sure exactly how. However it seems quite low. The wife has long legs 38" inseam and this seat isn't >working for her as a driver. It bothers my bad hip too. We are wondering if a stock seat is better for someone with long legs or where to really begin our >search for one that will fit her better.
>I don't want to order seats only to find out they are worse. Any help?
* There are enough GL1500s for sale all over that I think you could just cruise by expressing interest and sit on them and see what you think of stock. (I'm on stock and it's good for me, but it's like trying to buy a pair of jeans over the internet -- you don't know how they feel til you have them on...
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CCjon
Posted 8/2/2015 1:28 PM (#85623 - in reply to #85604)
Subject: RE: New to us rig help with gl1500



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 329
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Location: NWHouston













Welcome to the world of Winged Hacks. Have 1994 GL1500 with a Champion Escort SC. It too had some issues when I bought it with 58,000 miles. Have several comments on your questions.


fastjoe - 7/31/2015 5:08 PM

My issues are with the bike, and I hope some of you can help me sort them out. I know nothing about big Honda's but it looks like that will change now.

Brakes:
I was not always using the integrated brakes correctly when driving it home it seems, but even when I mashed both the front and back pedals hard at any speed I could not get the tires anywhere to lock.

**These are heavy rigs and don't stop on a dime with two rotors.  Even in a panic have never locked up the brakes. Adjusted my thinking to allow more space for stopping.**


Reverse:
Reverse doesn't work though it did recently according to the person selling it.

** Reverse doesn't engage every time for me either.  Might have to rock the bike a little to engage it. By the way the reverse is a great parking brake.**


I'd like to put a car tire on it.

** Went double darkside with mine. Goodyear Assurance in the rear and BT45 up front. Am very pleased with the tires, have over 12,000 miles on them and still going. Ordered the Goodyear from Tirerack.com**

 

Do I need to grind down the bead lock humps on the floor of the wheel to give the bead the best chance of seating properly?  **There was no need to modify the rear rim to seat the tire.**

 

How much air should I run in it to start. ** am running 40 psi in the rear, 36 in front and on the sidecar.**


Pulling away from a light: I am used to a lot of torque down low on large displacement bikes.
When it is warmed up it wants to stall when you go to move the hack. You have to have the revs probably over 3500 to get it to move. Once it moves a little it seems to have some torque. However if you were to rev to 3000 it would just stall if it was completely warmed up. Don't know if this is SOP for a wing or not?
**This is similar to the problem my Wing had. After struggling with it for a couple of weeks trying Sea Foam in the tank, finally took it to a Wing expert. He found that someone, when rebuilding the carbs, installed a one way valve on the carbs upside down. Said this is a common error he finds. The bike would run, but not smooth or strong. **

Cruising:
Also at what speed is OK to shift into 5th with a hack this size. It seems happier in 5th only at 65 or so on level ground.
**See previous answer**


How durable are the transmission and clutches in these? Should I be at all concerned with the high mileage on the bike.  

**These are very durable**


Mileage and extra gas tanks. At 65 it is getting 25mpg on flat level fairly straight roads.

**You might get a little better with a car tire. Wing are notorious for poor mpg over 65 mph. When cruising at 75, will go low as 22 mpg.**

 

I need to carry extra gas but want to carry it safely incase of a wreck.

**Installed five gallons auxiliary tank with transfer pump in the rear of the sidecar.  Just rode 7500 miles across country this summer, out west the extra gas was welcome.**

Seat:
OMG this is not the drivers seat we want.

** as mentioned the only way is to try many seats to find the one that works for you. Currently I am selling two different used aftermarket seats on our local Craigslist that I tried but didn't fit me. **

 Will try to answer any other question you might have, shoot me a PM.

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fastjoe
Posted 8/2/2015 3:23 PM (#85625 - in reply to #85619)
Subject: Re: New to us rig help with gl1500



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
phlaug - 8/1/2015 6:53 PM


>Brakes:

* I would start with a brake fluid drain.
>>>>> I will do that.

>Reverse:
* a GW forum should tell you if that N light is preventing R from engaging.
>>>>>I found some good info and am going to remove some of the tuperware and check the adjustments and clean some of the switches to see if I can get it working when time permits.

Pulling away from a light:

* That's not that dissimilar from mine. I chalked it up to age and just run it. You didn't say what year your Honda is,
>>>>> 1991
I'm still hopeful there is a fix. Maybe the car tires new ratio will make it more drivable. It's annoying and hard on the clutch with this one.

>Seat:
* There are enough GL1500s for sale all over that I think you could just cruise by expressing interest and sit on them and see what you think of stock. (I'm on stock and it's good for me, but it's like trying to buy a pair of jeans over the internet -- you don't know how they feel til you have them on...
Good advice, thanks.

Edited by fastjoe 8/2/2015 3:50 PM
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fastjoe
Posted 8/2/2015 3:49 PM (#85626 - in reply to #85604)
Subject: RE: New to us rig help with gl1500



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA

Welcome to the world of Winged Hacks. Have 1994 GL1500 with a Champion Escort SC. It too had some issues when I bought it with 58,000 miles. Have several comments on your questions.
>>>>Thanks.
Reverse:

** Reverse doesn't engage every time for me either. Might have to rock the bike a little to engage it. By the way the reverse is a great parking brake.**
>>>>>>>Thanks for the info on it being a parking brake. That will come in handy.


car tire:
** Went double darkside with mine. Goodyear Assurance in the rear and BT45 up front. Am very pleased with the tires, have over 12,000 miles on them and still going. Ordered the Goodyear from Tirerack.com**
>>>>>>I ordered a 175X60r-15 studless snow tire last night before I read this. It was a name brand, on sale and I was not sure that the size would be optimal. Hopefully it will help with acceleration and wear better than a motorcycle tire. Double dark will be in the future for certain. What is a BT45?

**There was no need to modify the rear rim to seat the tire.**
How much air should I run in it to start. ** am running 40 psi in the rear, 36 in front and on the sidecar.**
>>>>>>>Thanks glad I asked


**This is similar to the problem my Wing had. After struggling with it for a couple of weeks trying Sea Foam in the tank, finally took it to a Wing expert. He found that someone, when rebuilding the carbs, installed a one way valve on the carbs upside down. Said this is a common error he finds. The bike would run, but not smooth or strong. **

>>>>>>Wow. The previous owner just had these carbs rebuilt recently. I wonder if that is the problem, maybe the guy who did it made this common mistake. Is there any way to get more info on which part was upside down? This bike is definitely complicated but if I had a part number or a name of the part I would pull it down and check to see if it is in right. This gives me hope! This could be the problem since the bike runs fine till it warms up.   Then suddenly it goes into I can't go mode and stays that way till it is cooled down and in warm up again. 



How durable are the transmission and clutches in these? Should I be at all concerned with the high mileage on the bike.
**These are very durable** >>>>> Great info

I need to carry extra gas but want to carry it safely incase of a wreck.
**Installed five gallons auxiliary tank with transfer pump in the rear of the sidecar. Just rode 7500 miles across country this summer, out west the extra gas was welcome.**
>>>>>What type of tank and pump are you using?

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fastjoe
Posted 8/2/2015 4:07 PM (#85628 - in reply to #85604)
Subject: RE: New to us rig help with gl1500



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
Update:

I ordered a car tire 175x60R-16 and a new OEM rotor for the back as well as OEM brake pads all the way around last night.
This was the most common advice on the 2 forums I posted on. I'm changing the brake fluid when the brakes get redone.
Found that one of the new fork seals is leaking and there is some oil on the brake line to the caliper.
Perhaps some oil is on the disk too. I'm going to clean the fork seal and the disk.

I was tempted to go to a 175 X50R-16 but I wasn't sure about how going that much lower in the back would effect the EZ steer forks.
I need a bike that steers easily. Dropping to the 50 series tire lowers the back of the rig about 1.5 they say. Not sure if that would make the rig hard to steer?
I know it will increase the rake some but will it increase the trail enough to be a problem?

I'm plugging along on it and learning a lot along the way. Does anyone know if I will have to realign the car with the smaller wheel or if the electric lean will handle it? The 175X60R-16 is .900 smaller in diameter and has no radius to the tread so it may drop the rear of the bike even a little more.

Edited by fastjoe 8/2/2015 4:09 PM
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CCjon
Posted 8/2/2015 4:53 PM (#85629 - in reply to #85626)
Subject: RE: New to us rig help with gl1500



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 329
10010010025
Location: NWHouston
The BT45 is the Bridgestone BT-45 rear tire, 130/70-18 that is recommended by darksiders to use on the front of the Goldwing. Has a deeper tread thus longer lasting than normal front tires. Have had no issues with it. Some have mentioned they didn't like how it handled on grooved or milled road surfaces, but on my rig, it didn't act any different than normal.

Why a 15" rear tire". 15" was on the GW 1200 and had issues mounting a car tire on it? Am running the Goodyear Assurance 175/60R16 on the rear with no clearance problem. Also have EZ steer on the front like yours. Had a steering damper too, but removed it as unnecessary.

Ordered the aux fuel cell and pump from SummitRacing.com. Ask for a 12 volt low flow pump for a carbureted motor, you don''t want the high pressure pump they sell for fuel injected engines.




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fastjoe
Posted 8/2/2015 5:49 PM (#85630 - in reply to #85629)
Subject: RE: New to us rig help with gl1500



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA

CCjon - 8/2/2015 1:53 PM

The BT45 is the Bridgestone BT-45 rear tire, 130/70-18 that is recommended by darksiders to use on the front of the Goldwing. Has a deeper tread thus longer lasting than normal front tires. Have had no issues with it. Some have mentioned they didn't like how it handled on grooved or milled road surfaces, but on my rig, it didn't act any different than normal.

 Gotcha, thanks.

 

CCjon - 8/2/2015 1:53 PM

Why a 15" rear tire". 15" was on the GW 1200 and had issues mounting a car tire on it? Am running the Goodyear Assurance 175/60R16 on the rear with no clearance problem. Also have EZ steer on the front like yours. Had a steering damper too, but removed it as unnecessary.

  I meant 16.  Same size you are running.


CCjon - 8/2/2015 1:53 PM
Ordered the aux fuel cell and pump from SummitRacing.com. Ask for a 12 volt low flow pump for a carbureted motor, you don''t want the high pressure pump they sell for fuel injected engines. 
  I'll look at them.  Is your pump in the tank or is it mounted somewhere else?

That valve the mechanic found did he mention if it was a vacuum check valve external to the carbs but in the carb circuits or was it an internal valve inside the carbs themselves.

Looks like I will have to pull all the plastic off if the seafoam doesn't make things any better and any info about that would be much appreciated.  I looked at the drawings of the carbs and it looks intimidating to say the least.  If I were closer to where you live I'd just take it to the guy you took it to.   But I am not and I don't know of anyone who understands Wing engines in the area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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fastjoe
Posted 8/2/2015 7:08 PM (#85631 - in reply to #85604)
Subject: RE: New to us rig help with gl1500



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
Another question just occurred to me. Can you change the rear tire on these goldwings with the sidecar attached or do you have to remove the car, disconnect the car brake, electric lean and intercom etc to remove enough stuff as in saddlebags etc, to get actually get the clearance required to pull the rear wheel?

If so what gets removed and what stays?

Edited by fastjoe 8/2/2015 7:10 PM
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CCjon
Posted 8/2/2015 10:03 PM (#85632 - in reply to #85631)
Subject: RE: New to us rig help with gl1500



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 329
10010010025
Location: NWHouston
There are several YouTube videos on changing the Goldwing rear tire. Here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k7t0aTo4_U

You do not have to disconnect the sidecar or remove anything other than what the video says. That said, mounting a car tire on a Wing rim is a somewhat trickier process than mounting a bike tire. Is worth it to pay someone who knows what they are doing to mount it correctly. I had a car shop mount my first one and they did not do it right. Paid the Goldwing expert to remount it correctly. If you have someone in your area who builds Goldwing trikes, they will know how to properly mount car tires on bike rims.

Re carb check valve, don't know the part # or the location, I know that to work on the G1500 carbs, once removed, the procedure is to turn the carbs upside down on the bench to work on them. When they put the check valve back in, people forget the carbs are upside down. When they flip the carbs over to install, the valve is now pointing in the wrong direction. The solution is simple, getting to it is an expensive labor consuming process. Hopefully Sea Foam will fix your issues.



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fastjoe
Posted 8/4/2015 3:36 PM (#85669 - in reply to #85632)
Subject: RE: New to us rig help with gl1500



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
Thanks,
Sorry I didn't get back but I have been fighting with reverse on the bike.
Once you engaged reverse it would not start again for several hours nor give it a neutral light.
Think I might have it fixed. Also found an oil leak at the alternator which I think I fixed and a leaking fork seal, that I cleaned and it stopped leaking.
Here is hoping everything stays working.

Thanks for the help. I am hoping that seafoam straightens it out. Otherwise I guess I will be learning a lot more about Goldwing carburation which looks complicated.
On a bright note I'm getting really good at taking off the plastic already. Tupperware for 8!.


I also ordered a rear BT45 rear for the front. DO you run it backwards to take braking torque or forwards?
At the same time I am upgrading the front springs and guts to the front fork. I was cleaning the fork seals and found that most of the front travel was gone due to the weak springs. The sag was 2 3/16" Got parts for that on order too. This way I will only have to align the hack once. I have never done one with electric lean. It came with directions. I hope I can get it figured out without too many attempts cause I pretty slow.

Edited by fastjoe 8/4/2015 7:40 PM
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