Return to Home page

Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Calendars | Albums | Quotes
Sidecar.com Forum ->  General discussion -> Technical Discussion -> View Thread

You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Random quote: The best roads to ride are the ones that connect nowhere with nowhere, and have an alternate route that gets you there quicker. -- Robert Persig
- (Added by: bmwzenrider)

Double dark tires and steering damper
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   General discussion -> Technical DiscussionMessage format
 
fastjoe
Posted 8/13/2015 6:40 AM (#85804)
Subject: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
This is my first attempt at it running with a car tire on the rear and a MC rear tire on the front. Am I more likely to need a steering damper?
I've survived a couple of uncontrollable head shakers on 2 wheelers and have no desire to experience another one, ever. I have a steering damper. It's not mounted because the bike has been real steady with the MC tires that were on it. However if putting a CT on it is likely to make a damper necessary I'll get it on there. The bike is a 91 wing with a champion Dayton 2+2car

Edited by fastjoe 8/13/2015 6:42 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
AJ1200
Posted 8/13/2015 8:03 AM (#85806 - in reply to #85804)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 299
100100252525
Location: Savannah Ga
I think your going to be VERY happy with the tire change as far as overall ride and smoothness
as far as head shake every bike is different, I've read that for some the easysteer removes it and I have read others that said it didn't
but if your bike handles good now I would think the change of tires will only add to the good performance
I rode mine for months with a mild shake but finally decided to install the damper

Edited by AJ1200 8/13/2015 8:10 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 8/16/2015 1:46 AM (#85854 - in reply to #85806)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
AJ1200 - 8/13/2015 5:03 AM

I think your going to be VERY happy with the tire change as far as overall ride and smoothness
as far as head shake every bike is different, I've read that for some the easysteer removes it and I have read others that said it didn't
but if your bike handles good now I would think the change of tires will only add to the good performance
I rode mine for months with a mild shake but finally decided to install the damper


That sounds good. I am hoping to get some tire life. Living in the mountains with many right handers we go through tires pretty fast.
Since this bike will take a car tire I'm giving it a try. Thank you for the info. What prompted my question was a discussion about two wheelers running car tires on another forum. Actually a couple of forums. Some motorcycles do better with them than others. When it goes wrong for them being on just two wheels it can be a real mess. I've experienced a couple of tank slappers caused by high speed weave while riding and only survived them by dumb luck. Just on the off chance that The bike needed to have the steering damper hooked up to avoid this I figured I should check.

Thanks again.
Joe


"Yes the Pacific Northwest is burning again. 5 out of control fires within 20 miles of the house in 3 directions more than 30.000 acres burning"
God please send rain!

Edited by fastjoe 8/16/2015 1:55 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Lloyd
Posted 8/16/2015 11:10 PM (#85863 - in reply to #85804)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper


Veteran

Posts: 161
1002525
Location: Columbiaville, MI.
I had a 96 Goldwing 1500 with a Hannigan Astro 2+2 with Steerite triple trees and double dark, no steering damper and never had any head shake or other wobble problems, I have heard some 1500 riders who slightly over tighten the steering head bearings if they get a little wobble. Good luck with yours.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
SideCar
Posted 8/24/2015 11:20 AM (#85960 - in reply to #85804)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 146
10025
Location: Colleyville, TX
Been running car tires on 2 and 3 wheels for over 10 years. IMO, they don't increase head shake over a bike tire on the rear. Good setup will take most of the shake out and if you don't like what is left, you can damp it or you can go to different steering solutions that can further reduce it. I have met some folks who will more quickly put a damper on than spend extra time on the fundamental setup and that just hides the problem.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 9/5/2015 6:35 PM (#86110 - in reply to #85804)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
Thanks for the replies.
Sorry I didn't get back here sooner but I am only a few miles from one of the large forest fires in the Pacific Northwest and it has been intense here to say the least.
Finally got a little rain and cooler mornings. Then a little more and still cooler mornings and limited winds. Last I heard they thought they would have it contained by OCT 28th.
Looks possible now that we won't get burned out.

When they National Forest Service throws a BBQ no one can match them for style. This fire was 37,000 acres of prime timber.
That's a lot of charcoal. That and there were at last count over 500 head of cattle missing. I'm not sure how much BBQ sauce they ordered but it must have been a hell of a feed.

Hopefully things will go back to normal and I can turn my attention back to the sidecar soon.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 11/1/2015 1:34 PM (#86686 - in reply to #85804)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
Went through the drive train and forks and replaced a bunch of stuff that was worn as well as greased all the splines on the drive shaft which were dry.
One rotor was replaced plus new brake pads all the way around. Changed the clutch and brake fluid. Car tire on the rear and MC rear tire on the front put on with the arrow for rotation backwards.

What a difference in the rig. It was just tired of minimal maintenance and complaining. Lots of the vibrations I felt are gone. While the fork was apart, rebuilt with new bushings, RaceTech springs, seals and Cartridge emulators . Disabled the anti dive as well as put in new seals in the dive unit itself to stop the leak that had developed there. Lots of other work too. Rear subframe had to be welded as the trailer hitch had started a crack in it. Removed the trailer hitch too so that the tire can be more easily changed.

Even though the bike sits a little different because of the shorter Car Tire in the back it seems to handle well.
The change in ratio is just about perfect. The new overall gear ratio seems to be spot on for the heavier car. Much easier starts and a more usable 5th(OD) are really nice. I'm a little concerned about life expectancy because the tire is a studless snow tire.
Hopefully it will last for a while.


Now I am wondering if I need to check the alignment? It seems to handle good going down the road. Rode it about 60 miles in the rain and it felt fine.
I'm not sure what part of the alignment I would need to check or maybe change? Any thoughts? The bike seems to sit the at the same height in the front as it did before. As if there is not enough pre load on the springs. Which I will address when I change the oil in them again. The rear is technically 1" lower but doesn't look it.

Edited by fastjoe 11/1/2015 2:15 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
taco
Posted 11/1/2015 2:49 PM (#86687 - in reply to #86686)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Member

Posts: 36
25
Location: Andrews,NC
I went to a car tire on the rear of my bike. It lowers in to were the camber on the sidecar tire is off and I wore the inside of the tire down. So I would say you need to adjust the sidecar.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 11/1/2015 3:47 PM (#86688 - in reply to #86687)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
Darn, that isn't what I wanted to hear but thank you.
I have no flat cement to check it on right now without a few days of work.
I'll have to think on this.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
SeaZund
Posted 11/1/2015 6:04 PM (#86691 - in reply to #85804)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Member

Posts: 8
0
Location: D/FW Texas
what brand/size car tires are you folks using? I'm still getting my 1980 Harley with HD car dialed in.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 11/1/2015 6:47 PM (#86692 - in reply to #86691)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
I am running a 175/60.16 Dunlop Grapic studless snow tire. The tire was bought through Tirerack.
I'm running it on GL1500 honda. Which has enough room to probably take a tire 195 wide on it.


To put a car tire on your bike you will probably have to make some changes.
I'm not really sure to be honest.
There are a lot of parts to put wider tires on the back of any HD . It might not be as easy as just having it mounted. You might need to modify a rear fender, or change to a different style.
Space out the fender struts and figure out what rear wheel spacer and offset transmission sprocket you need.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
taco
Posted 11/1/2015 6:48 PM (#86693 - in reply to #86691)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Member

Posts: 36
25
Location: Andrews,NC
I have a 1998 Yamaha Royal Star and I'm running a Nahkang 165/80R15 on the rear and on the sidecar I'm running a West Lake 155R12
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jaydmc
Posted 11/2/2015 10:46 AM (#86695 - in reply to #85804)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper


Expert

Posts: 1513
1000500
I ran an 1988 GL 1500 with a Daytona 2 + 2 for many years, always ran an automotive tire on a custom wheel for the rear and usually ran a stock bike tire on the front. Tried a Metzler block K on the front. This is a tube type tire that I was not able to find a tube that would work with the valve stem angle on the wing. Ran it briefly to see how it would work with out a tube. Worked fine until the bike hit about 80 MPH which is close to the speed rating for the tire. The tire expanded enough to contact the front fender and melt the inside of it slightly. Latter sold the bike and converted it over to a leading link for the new owner manly due to the weight of the new owner require a bit stronger suspension the forks would allow. When I did this I set the fender up higher to clear the flat profile front tire. I like a very narrow flat profile tire on the front as it aids with breaking. I do not like wide flat profile tires on the front as they tend to follow every grove in the road and hydroplane to easy.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
2328 Roosevelt Ave.
Enumclaw WA
98022
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 11/3/2015 2:45 AM (#86710 - in reply to #86695)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
Jay thank you for the heads up on the front tire possibly rubbing. Never even thought to look.
I don't think it will be a problem but I'd better have a look see.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fastjoe
Posted 11/7/2015 2:17 PM (#86758 - in reply to #86687)
Subject: Re: Double dark tires and steering damper



Veteran

Posts: 155
1002525
Location: Eastern WA
taco - 11/1/2015 11:49 AM

I went to a car tire on the rear of my bike. It lowers in to were the camber on the sidecar tire is off and I wore the inside of the tire down. So I would say you need to adjust the sidecar.


You were right about needing to align the car. Even though it seemed to handle OK it was far from correct for the new tire hand fork height.
Good call thank you.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

 


Copyright 2004-2008, The United Sidecar Association — Built by BarringtonPress — Send your suggestions and comments to the webmaster
USCA Web usage policy



(Delete all cookies set by this site)
Running MegaBBS ASP Forum Software
© 2002-2017 PD9 Software