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to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??
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Sidcar
Posted 5/23/2016 1:11 PM (#89241 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Regular

Posts: 75
252525
Four adults in an Oxford, they must have been "close" friends.
I have been told that original Mini brake disc fits the Oxford hub does anyone know if that's true?

Sid
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trikebldr
Posted 5/23/2016 2:19 PM (#89244 - in reply to #89238)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??



Veteran

Posts: 104
100
Location: Independence, MO.
Jay, I wish you had taken a pic of that rig loaded like that! Might have made a great promotional pic for how strong your rigs are put together. You're talking about well over 1000lbs of "meat" in/on that rig! Yep, a brake needed for sure!
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Lloyd
Posted 5/23/2016 3:15 PM (#89246 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Veteran

Posts: 161
1002525
Location: Columbiaville, MI.
I am certainly not an expert, on sidecars or brakes. But I have real life experience I would like to tell you about. My first sidecar rig was a 91 Gold Wing with a Champion Escort sidecar, the brake was there but not hooked up. In a panic stop I locked up the front wheel, the sidecar pushed me to the left and I totaled the bike and sidecar, plus tearing parts of both wrists and hands, the base of both thumbs are still not attached to my wrists, limiting my grip. In a panic stop, if I have a choice of the sidecar pushing me to the left, or pulling me to the right, I'll take right every time. I am now on my fourth rig and have a 13 Ural Patrol, with a disk brake on the front wheel, and mechanical drum brakes on the rear and the sidecar, not the best brakes around, but seem to stop straight and are able to handle the Ural with a top speed of 65 okay. Get all the information you can, really try to decide if the sidecar brake is best for your riding style, or not.
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WinginCamera
Posted 5/31/2016 3:24 PM (#89316 - in reply to #89246)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??



Veteran

Posts: 203
100100
Location: Spanaway, Wa.
I just saw this discussion and thought I would add my experience with a GL1800 & Escort rig. I had done some testing with and without the sidecar brake connected. You can read it in this post, stroll back up to the top of the discussion.

http://sidecar.com/mbbs22/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=8723&posts=7&h...
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siouxindian1
Posted 6/8/2016 10:26 PM (#89420 - in reply to #88192)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Member

Posts: 7
0
jaydmc - 3/12/2016 10:35 AM

Brakes on a sidecar are always a good idea, any one who say's that they are not usually has no clue as to how to hook up a brake and as such tells you that you do not need or want a brake on a sidecar. Any thing that might keep you out of an emergency room is a good idea. However the drum brake like much else on the Velorex leaves a lot to be desired. Why they keep selling a mechanical drum brake sidecar in an era when only a few bikes still have drum brakes on the rear gets down to the Velorex company is far more interested in sales then safety. If you want a brake on the sidecar to work well with the bikes hydraulic disk brakes you are either going to need to change the wheel to a disk brake wheel or change sidecars. If you do change wheels to a disk brake wheel chances are that the brake rotor will be to large to balance well with the bike. This is why we make our own cast iron brake rotors for our sidecars which every one either comes standard with a disk brake or the disk brake is an option as many people either can not get past looking at price or buy into the notion that a brake on a sidecar is not needed. I would not be with out one on my own rigs.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
www.dmcsidecars.com
some times people say what they think. rather than what should be the standard.its like talking to some one a bought putting a sidecar on your bike. they say don't do it it is awful you wont like it it will be hard to ride it will kill you. don't put a car tire on your bike.if you will get the proper brake and get it adjusted properly you will love it at first and after you get used to having a brake you will want to know why you or any one else rode with out one before.just my 2 cents.
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oldbmwmaster
Posted 6/14/2016 7:25 AM (#89476 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


New User

Posts: 2
0
I have a 1998 Moto Guzzi with matching Hannigan. The rear brake of the bike and the sidecar are linked [both disc]. I have NO difficulties modulating the brakes. When loaded, I apply all brakes. When empty, it is easy to apply little to no rear braking. It really is a skill that is easily mastered. I like plenty of brakes.
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Sidcar
Posted 7/2/2016 1:36 PM (#89682 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Regular

Posts: 75
252525
I called in at Watsonian yesterday to collect a new damper unit for my Oxford and I asked them if they did a brake kit, the answer was no. They said that Grimcia had stopped doing the caliper they used. They say there will be a kit "sometime" but no idea when.
Sid
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Al Olme
Posted 7/2/2016 5:41 PM (#89686 - in reply to #89682)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Expert

Posts: 1736
100050010010025
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Ask them if they still have the brackets and fixings on hand and what caliper they used. Chances are excellent that they used a caliper that was common to many older bikes. I know that I wouldn't standardize on a caliper that was rare and hard to source. Used calipers are two a penny at the breakers.
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Sidcar
Posted 7/2/2016 6:08 PM (#89689 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Regular

Posts: 75
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They have no brackets or even discs. They seem to be concentrating on producing a kit for the larger wheeled models. They say they are having difficulty finding a caliper small enough to fit inside a 13 inch wheel.
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Al Olme
Posted 7/3/2016 12:10 AM (#89692 - in reply to #89689)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Expert

Posts: 1736
100050010010025
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Sidcar - 7/2/2016 5:08 PM

They have no brackets or even discs. They seem to be concentrating on producing a kit for the larger wheeled models. They say they are having difficulty finding a caliper small enough to fit inside a 13 inch wheel.


Which of course discounts all the hundreds of thousands of cars out there that have both 13" wheels and disc brakes. If you're serious about this and want to fab up something, you might look at trailer brake kits or even disc brake kits for go karts. Good luck.
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Sidcar
Posted 7/3/2016 3:07 AM (#89694 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Regular

Posts: 75
252525
I'm confident someone out there has already done it so I'll keep asking. I was under the impression that they used discs off the original Mini but no they used their own.
Trailer brake kits are a good idea, ta.

Sid
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MrMike
Posted 7/5/2016 11:41 PM (#89752 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: RE: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??



Veteran

Posts: 205
100100
Location: Richton, MS
I'm with Stan, confused. Will keep riding while I try to figure it out.



Mike in MS
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Willy2
Posted 7/27/2016 6:58 PM (#90096 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Member

Posts: 11
0
Location: Hazel Dell Vancouver, WA USA
So I have a question for the Washington riders. WA State is not in the business of certifying or testing someone to get the additional required endorsement license for trike or sidecar, but is now run by another contracted entity, does the testing agency require a motorcycle with sidecar that has to be provided by the one being tested, that the sidecar have a working brake on it? If so, is it supposed to be in sync with the motorcycles brakes or just used as an emergency brake set when not being used?
The machine you show up with to test with is supposed to be "legal", lights work, tires, legal tread, etc. That answer might determine legality of a brake or not, not just personal preference.
If someone saw some of the stuff I rode back in the 60's they would cringe, sometimes even I break out in a cold sweat looking back to that era of life and wonder just how I made it thru that period.
I remember when Washington first started doing the separate trike sidecar endorsement, the only approved "trike" was a Lehman conversion, no others were allowed, neither were the so called bolt on "training wheel" type like Voyager or Tow-Pac.
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jaydmc
Posted 7/27/2016 7:19 PM (#90097 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Expert

Posts: 1490
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First, Lehman was never the only conversion that was legal, they just went out of their way to make people think that. The federal law states that three wheeled vehicles must come with a parking brake from the factory. Lehman has a brake which is why they pretended to be the only legal trike. However, this law only applies if the vehicle comes from the factory as a three wheeled vehicle that is why you could not buy directly from Harley a motorcycle with a sidecar, the dealer had to order the motorcycle, and the sidecar then attach it as if it left the factory as a motorcycle with a sidecar it had to have a parking brake.
Brakes nor for that matter even lights are required on a sidecar. Lights are only required if the sidecar blocks the view of the bikes lights from specific directions. This also holds true for reflectors. Voyager, Tow-Pac and the likes still are not allowed on the training range. They can not safely do the swerving maneuvers needed to pass the test as when you swerve hard one way you load up one of the wheels suspension, when you swerve back the stored energy is released and throws you back onto the other wheel setting up a very violent head shake. When we take these units off I allow my employee's to try this (with the owners permission) at very slow speeds in our parking lot so that they under stand. For what it is worth, these units are not technically legal in most states as once installed it is now a four wheeled vehicle and as such must meet all of the four wheel vehicles crash and emissions testing. Twice I have asked at shows the factory rep from Voyager how they get around this and twice they turned their back on me and found some one else to talk to. Another issue with these so called "instant" trikes for testing is doing the braking test. You have added the mass of two additional wheels while reducing the bikes rear wheel traction and yet not a one of them even offers a brake as an option as far as I know.
If you go to one of the companies that does the testing for just the test you must provide a safe vehicle to take the test. This is no different then if you went to one of the companies that does the automotive testing. If on the other hand you take the class, you can provide your own bike as long as it is safe, or you can use the provided bikes with sidecars or use one of the trikes also provided.
I feel that it is unfortunate that for budget reasons Washington state no longer does the testing. I also feel that it is a good thing that they supplement the training tuition. Training is a very good thing and could save a persons life. Prior to training I know of at least one person who ended up dead with in a few miles of picking up her new trike conversion. She was following her husband on a two wheeled motorcycle, he went close to the lane barrier, she followed in his tracks, her out side wheel went up the barrier and over she went. Had at the time a three wheel endorsement been required and had their been classes perhaps this would not have happened.
I have been a S/tep instructor and under the very first certification program am still certified however not for Washington state. To be certified once more I would have to teach a class as the assistant instructor at least once every 5 years. As there are plenty of instructors now I find I have better things to do with my weekends then teach sidecars.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com


Edited by jaydmc 7/27/2016 7:22 PM
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Willy2
Posted 7/27/2016 8:31 PM (#90099 - in reply to #88179)
Subject: Re: to hook up the S/C brake??? ... or not??


Member

Posts: 11
0
Location: Hazel Dell Vancouver, WA USA
Thanks for clearing that up. Love my weekends, in fact every day is a weekend now that I retired.
An authorized Lehman trike "assembler" I knew was heavy into providing test vehicles at the time. There was some political stuff going on. My daughter was married at the time to someone whos parents had frequent Olympia political people over that I would meet; won't mention and is not now. Me being an ASE certified and a marine mechanic and worked on motorcycles it kind of frosted me that I couldn't buy a trike kit for a Goldwing and install it myself, yet I could buy a sidecar, just bolt on the sidecar and go.
According to the SW WA moto classes they no longer provide any motorcycles of any configuration, you show up with your own for classes and testing. That's going to be challenging not having one at the moment and trying to get relicensed for the trike/sidecar endorsement. At least I still have the two wheel endorsement. I just wanted to get that behind me so when one shows up I can just ride, and not wait around for class openings.
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