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Love WA State NOT
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Willy2
Posted 7/18/2016 4:30 PM (#89932)
Subject: Love WA State NOT


Member

Posts: 11
0
Location: Hazel Dell Vancouver, WA USA
Grew up in WA State, had a motorcycle before I had a car, got my own car at 16 with my own earned money. Had a motorcycle endorsement since I could. Rode things from a 120 Honda, 450, 650 BSA. Well you get it.
Also in High School a friend had a Harley Servicar, we "choppered". In wood shop him and I built an oak bed and in ag/metal shop him and I modified the neck and raked it out about 7 degrees and then modified a springer front end about 10 inches. Took the wheels off my 55 Chevy and mounted the mags on the back. What a death trap! but "cool" at the time.
Then I survived a tour on the government plan in South East Asia.
After I married, there was that 45 mile one way to work in all kinds of weather to leave the car home for wife and kids. There was a dry spell without a motorcycle for a few years raising children, but got back in the saddle. After some knee issues, I had a VW "chopper" trike, then sold that but still hung around the guy I sold it to.
When WA State started the different trike/Sidecar licensing requirements we were there getting the short period unannounced ability to be grandfathered in endorsement, riding up in full gear, obviously we knew how to ride one.
'04, I purchased a sidecar setup because a domesticated trike, or the states only allowed for testing Goldwing conversion was way too far out of my price range. Well then I was going thru a divorce. After divorce since I was retired (ex gets half of that) and not being tied to a job, I rode out of town, to Oregon. lived there for 6 years, remarried, moved back last September.
Went to get new drivers license. Felt odd that I didn't have to prove who I was, just a utility bill with the name I claim to be on it. My age and name pencil out to the exact license number I used to have I could still recite from memory. Great!
Ok, since Oregon doesn't break down the different categories of motorcycles and when I became an Oregon resident with Oregon drivers license, I "gave up on my own accord" having a trike/sidecar endorsement because Oregon didn't break it down.
Then the WA drivers license office told me if I ride that out of here you could be stopped and your motorcycle confiscated for not having the "7" endorsement. So here's the hack sitting outside, I rode in legal but rode out illegal. (sigh)
Since then I sold it to afford the move that cost way more than anticipated to license vehicles, emission tests, and some medical bills. Figure I guess I will wait till I am able to get something to worry about being legal. Wife prefers I do not. Trikes are still out of my retirement income price range, as is the Can Am Spyder.
My youngest son, middle daughter and her husband ride. Them and a few of their friends are planning an Alaska ride next summer I'd like to go, but might end up just driving the support vehicle. Tough getting old, but I'm not dead yet.
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MrMike
Posted 7/25/2016 11:39 PM (#90081 - in reply to #89932)
Subject: RE: Love WA State NOT



Veteran

Posts: 205
100100
Location: Richton, MS
Hey Willy2

Don't give up. Some of this sounds familiar. Good news is you can get over it. Took a real beating from the courts in WA. They really favor women in divorces cases. Got two sons and a step daughter living up there. I'd love to spend more time with them but no way. It takes awhile but you can go on. Twenty years later, here I am with a new life that includes three sidecar rigs. At lest you got family to ride with. The only one I got who is the least bit interested isn't old enough to get a license. Hang on brother. Life is an adventure, live it.

Mike in MS

P.S.

Who wants a trike when they can have a sidecar????
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jaydmc
Posted 7/26/2016 10:24 AM (#90083 - in reply to #89932)
Subject: Re: Love WA State NOT


Expert

Posts: 1490
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If you have a drivers license from any state other then Washington you need not have the three wheel endorsement. If you have a Washington state license and want to ride on three wheels you need the endorsement. This is a good thing. The reason it was set up this way as when no endorsement was required there was no legal way for the state to fund the S/tep class (sidecar trike education program) the simplest way to get funding was to make it an endorsement and as riding three wheels is a lot different then two training is a good idea. The state picks up half the cost of the training leaving only $120 for the class if you are a Washington resident. As an employer in the industry, I pay for any of my employee's who want to take the class to do so. I also use to be an instructor for the program. Training is good thing which could save you from injury or even death, having the state pay for part if it is even better.
If you had a three wheel endorcment from Oregon Washington would except it when you get a Washington license. As the way things are set up in Oregon you would have had a three wheel only endorcment rather then a motorcycle endorcment. My wife use to have only three wheels in Washington before all of this happened. She is also an instructor now.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
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Willy2
Posted 7/26/2016 11:58 AM (#90086 - in reply to #89932)
Subject: Re: Love WA State NOT


Member

Posts: 11
0
Location: Hazel Dell Vancouver, WA USA
I taught a motorcycle safety course in Virginia for 3 sessions at the Education Center on the Army base when stationed there in 1973. I was born and raised in Washington, I've ridden trike and side car off and on my whole life. I was endorsed for motorcycle since the late 60's, and trike and sidecar in Washington from the day they enacted that till 2007 when I had to move to Oregon to keep employment. I had to become an Oregon resident to keep employment.
I agree training is good to have when starting out on something new with different handling characteristics. However this happened like the typical hand in the taxpayers pocket in the Democratic progressive government under the guise of getting subsidized "free" training at your expense.
I moved to Oregon in 2007 since my employer left WA because of the over burdened tax base, and I only had a few years to retire from them and I wasn't giving that up.
I argued with Oregon licensing when I got there, why they made me take the written test for motorcycle. They told me I could get a trike only license endorsement, but the motorcycle license endorsement allowed me to ride a trike/sidecar and a motorcycle. That didn't make a whole lot of sense.
So moving back to WA I have to start over. More expense now that I'm retired on a small income.
Then leaving the licensing department, I ask for the list of driving classes; with a shocked look on their face, oh you'll have to go online, if we gave you a list, it would appear we favor one over the other. Duh, how about an alphabetical order? I certainly am not going to Auburn or Bellingham to seek the class, when I live in Vancouver.
Though I am fond of the sidecar, I personally in the past liked the trike because it had a more uniform handling characteristic turning in either direction. Maybe it was the way the particular sidecar was set up. I also enjoyed the more "lazy boy recliner" style of riding at the time.
I'm at the point the added expense to become legal now is beyond my reach at the moment with wife's medical bills and the huge increase in the cost of living where I do now. Really sucks. Especially since I have a sidecar with nothing to attach it to as that got sold to afford the move closer to wife's health care, then having to bear the expense of re certifying myself with the state that I am competent to ride this setup. They could look thru my history and see I had this before, but that doesn't count. I have never had any tickets while riding a motorcycle.
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Willy2
Posted 7/27/2016 7:37 PM (#90098 - in reply to #89932)
Subject: Re: Love WA State NOT


Member

Posts: 11
0
Location: Hazel Dell Vancouver, WA USA
I have a friends sidecar is for sale, just some time you have to just let it go. I was tempted to hang on to it for myself, but the cost of moving, medical bills of the wife's, is fudging on the ability to save up enough for another tug, then having to go thru that licensing thing again... So we will see how that goes. But yesterday I had mixed feelings when an elderly gentleman shows up to look at it.
Yesterday an elderly gray bearded gentleman showed up as a passenger in a vehicle with out of state plates. Lady Driver gets out and assists the passenger out, and gets him his cane, then decides he better use his crutches. He has a portable oxygen generator slung around his neck. I had to yell because he is hard of hearing. I took him to where the sidecar is, and he looked it over. I showed him the mounting pieces, asked him if he has had one before. Nope, he says, I have a brand new Kawasaki, the biggest they make, I want to ride it and side car is the only way I'm going to be able to do it.
So I told him hey, personally this is too small of a side car for what you want to do.
Yeah he said, I've talked to a couple places that sell them, I'm looking at close to 8 grand to get a new one, have it color matched, sync brakes and installed.
So he says he lives here in a small place he inherited because he has access to a better VA hospital than where his home is that he rents out. So he also says being a resident of a state that doesn't require the additional endorsement he won't be dealing with WA on their endorsement. (quote).
So I hope whomever is selling him and setting up his bike at least give his some lessons before they wave goodbye as he rides off.
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Hookalatch
Posted 7/28/2016 4:24 PM (#90110 - in reply to #89932)
Subject: Re: Love WA State NOT


Member

Posts: 11
0
Location: Cottonwood, CA
I can understand your frustration with Washington's system since you have experience and a previous endorsement. However, I would be happy to see a similar program here in California. In California you need a motorcycle endorsement involving either an approved training course or a skills test at DMV to operate a motorcycle but only a regular drivers license to operate a sidecar. That doesn't make much sense to me. Admittedly, there is a whole different skill set involved between a bike and a sidecar but it is not as big as the difference between a car and a sidecar. At least a motorcyclist understands throttle, shifting, and braking of the motorcycle, something the car driver will have no experience doing. You can take the course in Washington for just $50. Washington is the only place in the west that offers sidecar training. It will cost me $325 for the same course you can have for $50. If the $50 dollars is a deal breaker for you then you are probably making the right decision to get rid of the sidecar.

Chuck
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ptrthgr8
Posted 7/28/2016 4:59 PM (#90111 - in reply to #89932)
Subject: Re: Love WA State NOT



Member

Posts: 7
0
Location: North Dakota
I grew up in Seattle - lived in Ballard for the first 28 years of my life - and then ended up moving to North Dakota in 2000 for work (and a girl... who's now my wifey) and have been living happily ever after. I had no idea how messed up Washington's laws and regulations were until I was free from them. I mean, wow... total night and day difference. Yeah, sure... I miss the mountains, good seafood, and Maritime Pacific Jolly Roger Christmas Ale on tap each fall/winter... but I can get the seafood shipped to me (I love the Fishermen's Terminal seafood market), I can get the Jolly Roger shipped to me, and... well... I guess I can look at photos of mountains. But the reduction in government interference? Yeah, can't get that shipped from WA, that's for sure.

I'll be visiting the ol' neighborhood in October of this year to see friends and family again since I've not been back that way in 6 years... but I know I'll be super glad to get back to North Dakota when it's all said an done.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~
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Willy2
Posted 7/28/2016 7:23 PM (#90114 - in reply to #90110)
Subject: Re: Love WA State NOT


Member

Posts: 11
0
Location: Hazel Dell Vancouver, WA USA
This all is probably just construed as me whining, and your probably right. There's a lot more time on my hands than money at retirement...
I'm all for education and training and upkeep on that.
Not having a tug (motorcycle) at the moment to attach a sidecar to is one challenge. I get told the sidecar I have is good for up to 1200cc bike, is worth I'm told by a few about $800 yet you go look at numerous sites, this sidecar exactly is $3K for a new one, and others crowd $9K This thing has about 200 miles on it, how is that only worth $800. The suspension hasn't been bounced enough nor the nubbins off the original tire been worn. Personally I'd change out the tire solely because of age. It might need some minor cosmetics, but that's up to the individual.
When I had the "full meal deal" WA endorsement which is both two wheel and three wheel trike/sidecar, then moving to Oregon, they have an endorsement called trike/side car only, or there's the standard motorcycle endorsement. In Oregon you can ride any configuration with motorcycle endorsement, and their trike/sidecar only is just that, you can't ride two wheels on that endorsement. They miss construed my WA endorsement to sidecar only and they forced me to take the Oregon motorcycle test to ride my two wheels. So coming back into WA, well as I said, here we go again. It's the flaws in the absolute that catch some people.
However I do know like truck drivers, should they stop driving for a while get recertified to keep the endorsement.
I was dealing with the situation in 2003/4 that was actually against the new trike/sidecar endorsement that was being pushed thru the legislature, and met several of them, thru a common fluke of my daughter at the time, but not now, married into a high political and social bunch of people in Olympia. My comments weren't well taken back then.
Certainly I am not opposed to the safety and lives saved thru education and training, but I'm for less government. Why was my grandmother paying for anyone's motorcycle training? Because she is a taxpayer living in WA state. But as they argued, motorcycle and defensive drivers training is subsidized, this should be also. The only way they could get this thru funding, was to create an additional required endorsement for sub categories of styles of motorcycles.
I remember way back when I took a WA motorcycle driving test in the 70's there were a couple of categories, small and large. If you came in with a small bike to test on you couldn't get the large motorcycle endorsement.
I'm sure in the future they are going to push for legislation to create an even more sub category of two wheels in front and one in back like the Can Am Spyder.
But now the state doesn't even do any of the classes or testing anymore. Another industry created that gets paid real good by the State, and still charges the individual, even if it's just a little. And it's more than $50, that's retakes. You pass their written and driving test, then take that pink or green paper to DOL and they issue you the endorsement (at more expense), or the learners permit that lets you ride solo daylight hours for practice for a few months, then take the riding test.
In fact in the wording of the law, if your caught riding a trike or sidecar without a learners permit for the category, or without the endorsement, they can confiscate on the spot (not just tow it) your machine, and jail time.
I have a nephew that lives in Minot, his wife is from North Dakota.
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IndSlim
Posted 7/29/2016 3:49 PM (#90126 - in reply to #90114)
Subject: Re: Love WA State NOT


Regular

Posts: 98
252525
Location: SW Ohio
Yo Willy2!

 Welcome home, from another Viet Nam vet.

 





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Willy2
Posted 7/29/2016 4:28 PM (#90130 - in reply to #90126)
Subject: Re: Love WA State NOT


Member

Posts: 11
0
Location: Hazel Dell Vancouver, WA USA
Thanks! I was going to post a pic but it goes sideways.

Edited by Willy2 7/29/2016 4:33 PM
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