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Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic
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mayrel47
Posted 10/8/2016 11:24 AM (#90983)
Subject: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
Greetings, I've just purchased a 07' Vstar 1100 classic and a Ural sidecar. The sidecar was fitted to a R60/2 BMW with the ball/socket lower mounts(BMW has ball welded to frame). I spoke with Gary at Motorvation and he's sending me information/diagrams/photos of what I'll need to mount the sidecar to the bike. I researched several other mounting systems from other folks but wasn't impressed with their attitude and the quality of their hardware; Motorvation seems to have quality hardware and about the same price as their competitors.
With that said, has anyone mounted a Ural to a Vstar 1100 Classic and willing to share photos of your mounting system? One supplier refused to provide photos based on their fear their competitors or individuals would steal their designs. Purchasing expensive hardware "blind" doesn't appeal to me.
Specifically it looks like I'll need to have different brackets welded to the bottom tubes of the sidecar; I can get this done locally. Then it seems I'll need the correct sized hardware to set the sidecar up level with the bike. One main attachment is the front lower which needs to be adjustable for toe in/out. The rear bottom and two upper mounts shouldn't be too difficult.
Most instructions explain the distance between the rear bike axle and sidecar axle should be between 8 and 10 inches, with the sidecar wheel forward of the rear bike axle.
I've had other sidecar rigs, one I mounted myself(Velorex 562)which came with "universal" mounting hardware. It worked OK. I also had Bob Darden mount a Texas Standard on a R80/7 BMW which was perfect. The other rig was a Ural-T. We liked the Ural sidecar size, but performance was limited with the bike. After seeing the improvements to the new Urals they've done a good job, but the least expensive model Ct is over $13,000 new. I decided to put one together myself; the Vstar 1100 has plenty of performance and is suitable for mounting a sidecar relatively easy. We were able to find the bike and sidecar for significantly less money, both in excellent condition; I will have about $7500 invested when the rig is complete.
Any detailed information from you "experts" who have put together their own rigs, specifically a Vstar 1100 Classic and Ural sidecar will be greatly appreciated. Early thanks, John You can email me direct if desired mayrel47@cox.net. We're located in Navarre FL 32566, northwest FL.
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mayrel47
Posted 10/8/2016 1:43 PM (#90987 - in reply to #90983)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
Obviously there are several ways to attach the mounts to the bike, and the sidecar. If you don't mind, I'd like to see photos of your mounts. You can email me direct if you like; mayrel47@cox.net
We're located in Navarre FL.
I agree, Gary and I talked for some time; I'm convinced he is the best supplier and has experience. His prices are competitive with other suppliers, but his "can do" attitude and willingness to share information is top drawer.
Most bikes with box frames are fairly easy to attach mounts. I hadn't thought about where the frame is bolted together for engine removal; this may well be an option I can use?
I should have the bike and sidecar in my garage within the next couple three weeks. The first step is to get them sitting side by side, both level. Then we can determine positioning; 8 to 10 inches from the bike axle to the sidecar axle, sidecar axle forward. This will determine where the lower mounting tubes need to be fitted to the bike. Next we'll need to see how the mounts need to be configured to clear the bike mufflers and floor boards. The upper mounts should be easiest; front top of bike frame and somewhere as high as possible around the aft section of the seat.
The sidecar comes with the two upper struts, but I think I'll replace them and get everything from Gary. I'll be able to send him measurements and photos so he can determine the best mounting solution.
I know some can fabricate their own mounts or take their design/measurements to a local fabricator, but peace of mind is worth something, and obtaining mounts from an experienced supplier just makes sense.
Again, early thanks for your response. John
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mayrel47
Posted 10/9/2016 5:39 PM (#91011 - in reply to #90983)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
I agree Dave, if you have the tools and basic sidecar mounting instructions(available on line)the mounting brackets could be fabricated. The struts and clevis mounts are worth the money to purchase. As I've mentioned, once I get the bike and sidecar lined up I will be able to determine exactly what's needed. I like Motorvation's quality hardware so I'll purchase from them, and I like Gary's willingness to assist me long distance. We'll see what he suggests; apparently they have kits available or can fabricate them if needed. The Ural sidecar I purchased has two straight tubes for the bottom mounts, each have the ball/socket attachment(female socket on the sidecar). This sidecar was mounted to an older R60/2 which has the ball mounts welded to the bike frame. I'd prefer to bolt things on the frame as welding can weaken the tubing. This shouldn't be a difficult project with the correct hardware. Alignment of the sidecar axle to bike rear axle will determine if we will need to do some welding to the sidecar mounts. I'm hoping I can use pinch bolt brackets for the two bottom tubes with the appropriate angle for attaching hardware to the bike; mainly clearing the exhaust system and floor boards/brake. I may be able to use longer bolts for the mounts on the frame; the frame can be unbolted for engine removal. Right now I don't have the bike or the sidecar, should have the bike next week, the sidecar the following week, then we'll go to work. I appreciate your comments. I'll put together a detailed photo/instructions as I proceed, to include the wiring for lights on the sidecar. I'm somewhat color blind, but my wife can help me with this. I'm not sure how to post photos on this site, but I will make them available via email.
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michaelh
Posted 10/16/2016 2:56 PM (#91118 - in reply to #90983)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Veteran

Posts: 120
100
Location: Pago Pago, American Samoa
I'm surprised that neither Jay nor Claude have weighed in here. Since we own a Vstar 1100 Custom with a DMC Kenna double, I'll throw in my USD 0.02. If there's an 'attitude' issue from either of them, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they're just finishing off their busy season, and will have a lot more time to chew the fat in a month or so. Jay's also recovering from a medical procedure as well. My impression of the sidecar biz is that it's like the old joke, 'how do you make a small fortune? Start with a large one'.

Both of them (who have forgotten more about rigs than I've known) have said that sometimes they've used sub-frames on the bike, sometimes not. When Jay did ours, it must have been one of those 'not' times He picked up three points on the bike to create attachment points, then used a clamp for the rear lower.

I'm a bit wary of the clamp, but I put a witness mark on it, and after a couple of years on our roads (in places, 'road' is an overstatement!) it hasn't moved.

On the front, for the upper, he welded a boss to #14 on the frame IPL, lower to the rear brake bracket.

For the upper rear, he went into the 'curvey part' of the arm that support the rear fender/pillion seat (the part that gets cut off when you have a bobber type fender).

Like I said, all seems to work ok to me.

Another Vstar 1100 Custom owner has a 'reinforced' Velorex, has serious miles on the rig, and she has the frame clamps that came with the Velorex.
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mayrel47
Posted 10/16/2016 8:55 PM (#91120 - in reply to #91118)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
I'm not willing to reveal who I was referring to. My decision to go with Motorvation was primarily based on the quality of their hardware and their willingness to send me detailed photos and diagrams of the mounting system for my particular application. Additionally the price of the hardware was very close to the same. However, I'm mounting a Ural sidecar which is much heavier than the Velorex; I was concerned about the hardware being strong enough. I'm sure these other suppliers have good hardware with much success or they wouldn't remain in business. So I can't speak about their products reliability or their reputation.
I have had other sidecar rigs and didn't have any issues. I too used the hardware that came with the Velorex 562 which I purchased new. The other rigs I had were done by professionals; Texas Standard on an R80/7 and a Russian Denper on a R100GS. I chose the Vstar 1100 based primarily on dealer support in our area: I got a good price for an 07' with only 11,000 miles and unmolested with aftermarket exhaust systems. I was also lucky to find a Ural sidecar in very good condition for a great price(although I have to drive some 30 hours to bring it home). All in all I'm pleased with what we'll have for a reliable sidecar rig for under $8000 ready to roll.
We live in Navarre FL in the panhandle, mostly flat and straight roads. I haven't seen but a couple of sidecar rigs which I think were tourist traveling through and one Ural Gearup which is for sale. There are mostly HD and metric cruisers. The Vstar 1100 we have should provide adequate performance with the Ural sidecar, enough to ride at the legal speed limits on highway and secondary roads. Having owned a Ural-T, which we thoroughly enjoyed, the only issue was it's limited performance and braking, and more frequent routine maintenance. With that said, the newer Ural's have been significantly improved with fuel injection and disc brakes, although maintenance is still required more frequently. If you can live with the slower pace and can perform your own maintenance, the Ural is a very well designed sidecar rig which offers off road use. Dealerships are not always nearby, but I can testify their customer service is superb. The Ural Ct is reasonably priced at $13,000 new, if you're looking for a sidecar specific designed rig, there isn't anything in it's class. I decided to put together another sidecar rig which is less expensive and achieves our objective for local riding and touring. We opted to trailer our Ural long distances, now we can tour on the rig.
I appreciate all the responses to my initial post. When we begin mounting the sidecar I will have detailed photos available to show the step by step process. John
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michaelh
Posted 10/17/2016 4:16 PM (#91131 - in reply to #91120)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Veteran

Posts: 120
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Location: Pago Pago, American Samoa
Hi John,

Please keep in touch, I'd like to hear how your adventures go. Most people have their cars mounted to BMW or H-Ds, we're somewhat in the minority, so it'd be nice to exchange notes.

best,
Michael
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mayrel47
Posted 10/20/2016 4:40 PM (#91159 - in reply to #91131)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
Hello Micheal, just got home with the hack, bike is still in the shop, so I'm unable to do anything. I will keep you posted. Maybe we should go to PM correspondence and/or email? There may be some things only interesting to us? John
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Al Olme
Posted 10/20/2016 5:18 PM (#91160 - in reply to #91159)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Expert

Posts: 1732
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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
While I'm a fan of PMs for buying and selling, I urge you to leave your mounting discussion on the public side. It will undoubtedly be of value to someone in the future. Thanks.
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michaelh
Posted 10/21/2016 12:10 AM (#91161 - in reply to #90983)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Veteran

Posts: 120
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Location: Pago Pago, American Samoa
I'm cool either way John, I'll pm you my email in case there's something you want to chat about off board.

Please understand that my knowledge and experience is only based on the one rig.
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mayrel47
Posted 10/21/2016 8:56 AM (#91162 - in reply to #91161)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
Hey Michael, I guess we should share our discussions with other forum viewers;never know what might come of it? Looks like I'm going to have to do some modifications to the Ural bottom front mount, and possibly the rear bottom as well. They are the ball/socket type mounts which fit perfectly to the R60 it was mounted to. I'm waiting for my bike to get out of the shop to determine what needs to be done. I'll send photos of these mounts to Gary at Motorvation to get his input. The rear bottom mount is a tube held in place via pinch bolts, so it could be completely removed and replaced, or modified. The front bottom mount is part of the sidecar frame, so it's not as easy to deal with; it has an angle to it. As you know the front bottom mount needs to be adjustable for toe in/out. I'm confident this will all come together, just need the right mounting brackets and/or some welding. I'll send you photos via your email as I don't know how to post photos on this forum. Later...John
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IndSlim
Posted 10/21/2016 10:02 AM (#91165 - in reply to #91162)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Regular

Posts: 98
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Location: SW Ohio
Oops........... double post.

Edited by IndSlim 10/21/2016 10:16 AM
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IndSlim
Posted 10/21/2016 10:13 AM (#91166 - in reply to #91162)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Regular

Posts: 98
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Location: SW Ohio
To post a pic, write your post, then check the box at the bottom that says "attach a file after posting".  Click on "attach a file" and choose one from your computer.



(Chief Halftown.jpg)



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Attachments Chief Halftown.jpg (47KB - 0 downloads)
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mayrel47
Posted 10/21/2016 3:06 PM (#91168 - in reply to #91166)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
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Thanks! I'm not the most computer smart old guy out there....age thing I guess...John
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mayrel47
Posted 10/27/2016 8:34 PM (#91245 - in reply to #91168)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
I recently spoke with Gary at Motorvation. The Ural sidecar I have was originally fitted to a R60 BMW using the ball and socket(ball joint) lower mounts. With the 19" wheel the sidecar frame is about 12 1/2" off the ground. Gary suggested cutting off the protruding 2" tubing on the lower mounts and welding a section of square tubing to the bottom of the remaining frame. The idea is to get the bottom mounts of the sidecar as level as possible to the lower mounts on the bike. This will require some aligning of the upper and lower mounts to achieve a straight line from the bike frame to the sidecar(90 degrees vertically).Once this is accomplished aligning the sidecar to the bike will be simple; keeping a distance between the bike axle and sidecar axle 8 to 10 inches forward of the bike axle, then marking where the mounts will be attached to the sidecar frame in line with the mounts on the bike frame. The challenge is to determine the size of the square tubing to use on the sidecar. Once I get the bike home I can determine how far down I need to come to be level with the bike frame. I suspect this will be about a 6 to 7 inch difference. This can be accomplished using slider pinch tubes on the sidecar attached to a 2x2 square tube welding to the bottom of the existing frame and clevis tube in the length needed. I'm going to try and keep these at 90 degree angles using a slanted slider pinch tube connection which Gary has. I should need two sets of these and the correct length struts for the upper and lower connections. I will ask Gary if it might be best to use a larger square section of tubing on the sidecar to reduce the length of the slider/clevis tubes. As I mentioned before, I will attempt to provide photos on this forum. I just attempted to add some photos as a test. Apparently my iMac won't talk to this mircrosoft forum? If you want photos, send me your email and I'll include them. Maybe I can send photos using this forums PM function?

Edited by mayrel47 10/27/2016 8:38 PM
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Al Olme
Posted 10/27/2016 9:09 PM (#91246 - in reply to #91245)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Expert

Posts: 1732
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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
mayrel47 - 10/27/2016 7:34 PM

<>As I mentioned before, I will attempt to provide photos on this forum. I just attempted to add some photos as a test. Apparently my iMac won't talk to this mircrosoft forum? If you want photos, send me your email and I'll include them. Maybe I can send photos using this forums PM function?


This isn't a "Microsoft" forum so if you're having trouble posting pictures, maybe we can help. The PM system doesn't support photos.
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mayrel47
Posted 11/17/2016 7:43 AM (#91466 - in reply to #91246)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
I'm making progress, albeit slowly. I finally determined using 3x3 square tubing welded to the hack frame will allow fitting the lower clevis slider tubes and pinch tubes most securely. There is plenty of ground clearance on the hack frame to allow this. I'm attempting to include some photos of one of many mockups. I'm now awaiting the remaining parts.
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mayrel47
Posted 11/21/2016 7:21 AM (#91476 - in reply to #91466)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
Here's the latest on my sidecar mounts. I will be using two sections of 2x2 square tubing 10" long welded to the front and rear bottom of the sidecar frame. These will be drilled to accomodate the two pinch tubes. I'll have to add a gusset to the front mount as it will extend approximately 4" past the sidecar frame. Using 70 degree pinch tubes and slider tubes the two bottom mounts will be secure. I was able to use the front upper strut mount on the sidecar; the rear upper strut will require a block welded in place. The rear upper and lower mounts are at 90 degrees to the bike. The front upper and lower mounts are at a slight angle due to the floorboard on the bike. I should have all the remaining parts later this week. I'll dry fit everything with the sidecar aligned to the bike, tack weld each piece in place, then move the sidecar away from the bike to complete the welding. I'll need to paint the parts and go for a test ride. The sidecar axle is 16" ahead of the bike axle which is within the maximum distance recommended. This distance is not super critical, although the further forward the sidecar axle is located the more tire wear is expected due to scrubbing around corners. I'm not too concerned about this. Generally speaking the rear bike tire and sidecar tires will wear quicker anyway, same wear experienced without a sidecar to the rear tire.

Apparently adding photos is difficult since I have an iMac computer. I've attempted to add photos using the "attach a file after posting" option at the bottom of this posting without success. If anyone wants photos they can email me direct mayrel47@cox.net.

I'm confident this sidecar set up will work fine. I'll provide final results soon. Thanks to all for your help and comments. John
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Reardan Tom
Posted 11/21/2016 9:03 AM (#91477 - in reply to #91476)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic



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mayrel47 - 11/21/2016 4:21 AM


Apparently adding photos is difficult since I have an iMac computer. I've attempted to add photos using the "attach a file after posting" option at the bottom of this posting without success. If anyone wants photos they can email me direct mayrel47@cox.net.

Thanks to all for your help and comments. John


To add photos, you might try the Edit button after you post or on your last post. Then at the bottom of the next screen you'll see "add/remove attachments" click that, select the file with browse then done. Works for me every time... Good luck!
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mayrel47
Posted 12/10/2016 9:08 AM (#91683 - in reply to #91477)
Subject: Re: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
I have just had the extended frame and other components welded-up. Now all I need to do is prep and paint. I'm pleased with the rig so far. It's not going to be a "show" rig, but functional and very sturdy. I wish I could include photos but just not having any luck.
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mayrel47
Posted 12/10/2016 2:57 PM (#91689 - in reply to #90983)
Subject: RE: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
Thanks! Yes, this are the latest photos of the frame extension and mounts. The next step is to prep and paint the frame, hook her up and go for a test ride. Due to the cold snap we're having this weekend I will have to wait till Monday when it warms up to paint. I will also need to wire the tail/brake and fender running lights. I may need help from the dealership if I can't locate the wires from the schematic I've gotten on line? It won't be a pretty rig, but it should be functional and comfortable. New tires all around(including the spare), bike has been fully serviced and running perfectly. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for posting the photos. John
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mayrel47
Posted 12/11/2016 1:58 PM (#91700 - in reply to #91689)
Subject: RE: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
Howdy Boys, just finished prepping and painting the frame; came out pretty good for a rattle can job. Tomorrow I'll reinstall the hack and go for a test ride; should prove to be an interesting day!! Wish me luck! Blessings and thanks for all your help everyone....John



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mayrel47
Posted 12/12/2016 1:42 PM (#91711 - in reply to #91700)
Subject: RE: Ural sidecar mounted on Vstar 1100 classic


Member

Posts: 35
25
Finally finished mounting and road tested; no issues, no wobbles, she tracks nicely. I'm both amazed and thrilled!



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