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Poll Sidecar mounts for Nomad
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Posted 9/5/2005 10:29 PM (#9717)
Subject: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


I have a 2004 Kawasaki Nomad and i bought a 1991 Velorex 562, but i can't see how to attach it to the bike!!!
Do you have pictures showing the mounts on a Nomad or where could i find such parts?
More details i can get, more easy it will be for me to finish that work!
Thanks my friends!

Michel from Quebec,Canada.
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JayDauntless
Posted 9/7/2005 9:00 PM (#9758 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


Extreme Veteran

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Location: Covington WA
We make mounts for the Nomad but not to for use with the 562. This is way to light of a sidecar for a bike as heavy and powerfull as yours. If you decied to go with a stronger sidecar or if you deciede to go with a lighter bike we would be glad to help you with mounting hardware.
Jay Giese
Dauntless Motors Corporation
www.dauntlessmotors.com
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Posted 9/7/2005 10:11 PM (#9764 - in reply to #9758)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


This Velorex was mount on a FLHTCUI much more heavier than my bike and he never had problems!
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JayDauntless
Posted 9/8/2005 11:56 PM (#9802 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


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Location: Covington WA
Sure he never had problems, That does not mean it was a good match up. Just because you can mount a 100HP out board on a small row boat and get a way with it for a while does not make it a good idea. Same holds true for a motorcycle with a sidecar. There is a reason we offer axle up grades and other companies offer wheel up grades and suspention up grades for the Velorex. There simply is not much of a saftey margin on a bike as large as yours and they are known to bend or brake axles, pull spokes from the hubs and have mounts slip on the frame. The Velorex is a great sidecar for small bike but not for heavy bikes.
Jay Giese
Dauntless Motors Corporation
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claude #3563
Posted 9/9/2005 5:06 AM (#9804 - in reply to #9802)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



Expert

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Location: Middleburg, Pa
Michel,
Honestly, what Jay is saying is good advice. Over the years we who have been around this stuff have seen it over and over again where someone put togehter a mis matched rig. Typically it is a large tourer with a Velorex or maybe a Spirit Eagle. It is too bad as these are nice sidecars when mounted to a machine that is more copmpatable with them.
The story usually goes like this: Sidecar is mounted...owner runs it a while...sidecar is then sold...owner has little good to say about sidecars.
The 2nd story goes like this: Sidecar is mounted...owner runs it a while...owner gets into a turn too fast...sidecar comes up quickly(right hander)...rig runs across centerline....rig crashes...owner has nothing good to say about sidecars except they are death traps and dangerous.
The third story does not allow the owner to bad mouth sidecars.

So, can the combination be made to work? With concern of sounding like I am contradicting myself...Yes.. but with ballast(added weight), a wide stance, upgraded axle,beefier suspension and much trial and error. These steps are typically not taken or some are and some are not. The result is a lot of time and probably money gets spent and the end result is still not as good as it would have been if a matched setup was decided upon to begin with.
I did build up a Velorex one time into a pretty good road burner. It was mounted on an XS1100 yamaha. It had different mounting struts, a torsion bar suspension, modified swingarm, Car spindle with 13" car tire, different fender and a braced up sidecar frame. Overkill? No doubt but it did handle.
Many feel that the rule of thumb is to have a sidecar that weighs about a third of the bike's weight when road ready. This is not cast in stone but is a good starting point. The Velorex 562 weighs, I think, 154 pounds.
Ural sidecars have the nostalgic appearance to go well with a Nomad or the vintage looking bikes and can be found at a good price. They weigh over 200 pounds. Just an example.
Don't want to overstate this information but by the same token would feel guilty if nothing was said.


Edited by claude #3563 9/9/2005 5:10 AM
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Posted 9/9/2005 8:13 AM (#9806 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


I already have ballast (weight) added in the sidecar and i'm changing the wheel and fender for a FLH fender with the HD 16 inches spoke wheel.For sure the axle will be change to fit the wheel. And i do with the money i have, i'm not as rich as many of you are...And i don't like at all the Ural look! I want my sidecar to look like a Harley one for third of the price, i don't have more money than that. And i don't want to put more weight to the bike cause with its 65HP ,its already enough weight, me 205 lbs, my wife 255 lbs and my son 107 lbs... If i continue to add weigh, i will need a Chevy 350 in.cu. to install on my bike....
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claude #3563
Posted 9/9/2005 8:31 AM (#9807 - in reply to #9806)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



Expert

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Location: Middleburg, Pa
Sounds like you are on the right track with the ballast etc. You may want to keep an eye on the sidecar suspension as the rig may want to heel over pretty hard in left handers due to the weight and soft springing. Also the lower rear mount on the sidecar frame tends to slip on many of th eVelorex rigs. Once it is set it can be marked so any movement can be seen easily. Some folks pin them or weld them into place.
Yes, it can be made to work. And it CAN be made to work without spending an arm and a leg too if you are handly and willing to work with things yourself. When on the road be careful and practice practice practice. ADownload Hal's books off this site for free if you have not already done so..good info there.
Claude, who has not received a pay check in seven weeks himself

Edited by claude #3563 9/9/2005 8:42 AM
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Posted 9/9/2005 9:02 AM (#9808 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


What kind of shock or spring can i put there instead of the stock one?
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claude #3563
Posted 9/9/2005 9:32 AM (#9810 - in reply to #9808)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



Expert

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Location: Middleburg, Pa
Before I converted mine over to a torsion bar suspension I had found a shock in a pile of parts at the local Harley Shop that was able to be made to fit. I have no idea what it was off of though. I also had tried a rubber bumper stop on the stock shock that worked pretty good. This was the kind that goes over the shaft of the shock. They are less than 10 bucks.(see stockcarproducts.com).
Maybe some others will have better solutions than these but I used what was availble and the costs were almost zero.

Edited by claude #3563 9/9/2005 9:52 AM
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ghostflames2002
Posted 9/9/2005 11:28 AM (#9813 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



Regular

Posts: 51
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Location: West Boylston Mass
Michel;
I too found myself in a situation similar to yours. I was totally undecided on which sidecar to buy. I spent countless hours on ebay seaching and looking at the various models and was tempted to buy the velorex because of the attractive price but the weight scared me away as I am mounting to a 1440 cc indian. I considered the ural and in fact took a ural rig for a ride. Was a blast but not as confortable as my low rider. Its difficult to find out enough information to make a decision based on the technical fit of these sidecars unless you come here first before you buy. And yes you will get the sales pitch from people who are in the bussiness and trying to sell you their product but the fact of the matter is they are the most knowledgeable. I purchased a harley rig because I liked its appearance and it was heavy enough, my challenge now is how to adapt it to my bike and as sure as I am I will succeed I am sure you will too. Ridin two wheels is much easier to get started in but I think havin a nice sidecar rig is well worth the effort. Good Luck John

ps From what I have read Ridin 3 people on a rig can be dangerous.
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Hack'n
Posted 9/9/2005 1:14 PM (#9820 - in reply to #9813)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



Expert

Posts: 4833
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Location: Boise, Idaho
John,
Three people on/in a hack rig is fine if you put the heaviest passenger in the sidecar. I've seen where two heavyweights on the bike and one small child in the boat has tipped over on a slow reverse camber righthand turn. Nothing was hurt but egos and some road rash on the bike fairing, but it can happen.
A bit of common sense and a smattering of the principles of physics can definitely be a plus when Sidehacking.

Find a good way to mount the TLE to your single down tube yet?

Lonnie
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Posted 9/9/2005 1:26 PM (#9821 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


My wife doesn't want to sit in the sidecar, for sure, she's 255 lbs!
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ghostflames2002
Posted 9/9/2005 2:28 PM (#9825 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



Regular

Posts: 51
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Location: West Boylston Mass
Not yet lonnie. Looks like it will be a fabrication job. I wondered about using one of the clamp sections as the connection and the other with a dummy pipe. My concern is that it wont be centered on the clamp as designed and there may not be enough adjustment. Any ideas would be appreciated. I seem to have read the thing on the dangers of three people somewhere, but what you said makes total sense. thanks
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claude #3563
Posted 9/9/2005 3:48 PM (#9827 - in reply to #9821)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



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Location: Middleburg, Pa
>>My wife doesn't want to sit in the sidecar, for sure, she's 255 lbs!<<
Yes you will havre a challenge getting this rig to handle safely at any speed at all.

In doing some simple math in light of the 1/3 weight rule we have a bike that is said to weigh 743 pounds (I guessed the model as being a 2004 1500 Nomad ??)Keep in mind the 1/3 weight rule is not castr in stone but maybe this will give you an idea on what you are up against.
A driver at 205 pounds and a passenger on the rear of the bike at 255 pounds for a total of 1203 pounds on the bike side.
Then we have a Velorex sidecar at 154 pounds and a passenger at 107 pounds for a total of 261 pounds. You said you had added ballast but not how much.
Anyhow from the above if we consider the 1/3 weight rule for a roughly 1200 pound total bike weight the sidecar should tip the scales at around 400 pounds. Your sidecar with passenger weighs approx 260 pounds. 400 minus 260 = 140 POUNDS OF BALLAST.
Without the passenger in the sidecar the rig would be pretty scary to drive.
Without the sidecar passenger and the ballast in the sidecar you may not even be able to sit still and keep the sidecar wheel on the ground.
Reversing the passengers and keeping ballast would be okay.
With you on the bike and no passenegers OR BALLAST the rig would be 945 (bike side) and 154 (sidecar side) ..Not good. If the 140 pounds of ballast were added to the hack as mentioned above it would be 945 bike and 294 sidecar...not bad as far as weight distribution goes.
Remember the stock Velorex was designed for a 350 Jawa. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND THE NOMAD.
Not trying to be difficult here only trying to show how much a machne can vary as weight is placed differently on that machine.



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Hack'n
Posted 9/9/2005 7:40 PM (#9834 - in reply to #9827)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



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Location: Boise, Idaho
"Remember the stock Velorex was designed for a 350 Jawa".

Claude,
The original 562 was designed for the Jawa Models as a replacement for the 560. Also used on the larger Jawa/CZ and MZ 500 Gespann.
The new 562 Cruisers, although still a light sidecar, have a vastly improved suspension with longer swing-arm with releveraged shock mounting for stability, adjustable shock, 25% larger axle at 20mm, and a wider wheel.
If I stand on the step plate of a new 562C (I weigh 190#) the suspension only settles 1/2" with the shock in the softest setting. With the 562 Standard with non adjustable shock, the suspension would sag to half it's travel or more. These new cars are a lot more stable than the original 562 Standard or 562E models of the '70s, '80s and '90s.
The new 562 Cruiser has been upgraded to suit the prevailing cruiser market. But still too light for the full dress late Ultras, GLs and such.
The 700 Cruiser model has been similarly upgraded and the new 565 Tour is quite a bit larger and heavier with a Harley sized 130x16" tire on a wide rim and a redesigned three tube frame.

Lonnie
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claude #3563
Posted 9/9/2005 8:22 PM (#9839 - in reply to #9834)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



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Posts: 2471
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Location: Middleburg, Pa
Thanks fro th einfo Lonnie. I knew there were mods made to the newer models but was not sure what they were. The 565 should prove to be a nice sidecar.
Make note though that th esidecar in question is said to be a 1991 Velorex 562.
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Bob in Wis
Posted 9/11/2005 2:36 PM (#9893 - in reply to #9821)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



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Originally written by 62BadBoy on 9/9/2005 1:26 PM

My wife doesn't want to sit in the sidecar, for sure, she's 255 lbs!


At 255# the sidecar is the only place your wife should be for safety's sake.

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Hack'n
Posted 9/11/2005 4:11 PM (#9894 - in reply to #9807)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



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Claude,
The Sportster Hugger and some of the FX Lo-Riders used an 11 1/2" shock that will fit the pre-Cruiser Velorex. One will need to use metric bushings or the fit will be a little sloppy.

Lonnie
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claude #3563
Posted 9/11/2005 8:55 PM (#9896 - in reply to #9894)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



Expert

Posts: 2471
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Location: Middleburg, Pa
>>Claude,
The Sportster Hugger and some of the FX Lo-Riders used an 11 1/2" shock that will fit the pre-Cruiser Velorex. One will need to use metric bushings or the fit will be a little sloppy.
Lonnie<<

You da man Lonnie..thanks again for th einfo. Maybe that is what I dug out of the box at the harley shop years ago. Price was right too. Come to think of it I did play around with bushings on it..totally forgot about that.
I do remember messing around trying to find a shock after my stock broke in half in Ohio on the way to Canada. To get it going I actually hooked the swingarm to the sidecar frame with a big u-bolt..LOL. Talk about screwed up lean out..whew. Then all I could tink of was that little bitty Velorex axle and all the stress it was having to handle as a rigid setup. Oh well a guy has to do what a guy has to do...even if it is not recomended. We made it but not with peace of mind.
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sidecarLenny
Posted 9/12/2005 10:28 AM (#9915 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


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This rig is way to dangerous with that weight distribution.
The fact that velorex was on a dresser and there were no accidents does not means its safe!
It means you were lucky!!!!!!!!
Everyone in this club loves sidecars, but no one wants to see a rig that is unsafe out on the road.
I would hate to see that weight distribution/rig on a twisty right hand curve going a little too fast.
That could spell DANGER.
Goofd luck working out your rig.
Please be careful.
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Uncle Ernie
Posted 9/12/2005 11:05 PM (#9962 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



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Everybody is such a party pooper around here. Look at his moniker- Badboy is the tough biker nomad with squared jaw facing into the wind. Probably has a tattoo. If he and his wife fall over on the left side, he'll either figure out how to make it right or there will be a good deal on a Velorex somewhere. GO FOR IT DUDE!
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stickwelder
Posted 10/14/2005 2:05 PM (#10752 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


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Posts: 21
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Location: tallahassee florida
I too have 2004 kawa Nomad. Talked to a DEALER in so fla just last night and he assures me velorex #565 or#562 a good match for my bike. Buy rig & only $300.00 for complete installation. Wonder if that included ballast. Was real sure this was the car for me" poor dumb rookie" don"t know who to beleive. My thanks to you all. Experience is well found knowledge One final question can you set up with a bike with a car and also go solo or is it one or the other? THANKS Again, stickwelder
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Hack'n
Posted 10/14/2005 3:42 PM (#10754 - in reply to #10752)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



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Stickwelder had:
One final question can you set up with a bike with a car and also go solo or is it one or the other?

We setup many rigs for people who aren't ready to plunge into an expensive dedicated sidecar outfit yet.
Some are "weekend parents", some want a sidecar on for a camping or fishing trip, or to haul the dog (s), but don't necessarily want to lose the solo capabilities of their bike.
Most single passenger sidecars will come off relatively easily with the removal of four bolts and an electrical connection. Once off, they are a "One legged cow" to work with unless one has a dolly to roll them around on and to use to reattach the car when desired.
As long as the mounts and struts are not readjusted, the car will bolt back on with the same alignment as before it's removal.
An unmodified bike with a sidecar is an inexpensive (Affordable) way to enter sidecaring. Most of the mods that will constitute a dedicated sidehack rig can be done retroactively as desired or as $$$$$$$ permits.
Minor adjustments can be made to begin with. Higher viscosity fork oil and decent rear shocks will help stabilize the rigs ride. Inflate tires for maximum loading since there are side loads that didn't exist before.
It will take a little more effort steering than a dedicated rig. Usually that's no big deal.

Bottom line: If you don't wish to pursue the sport further, you can sell the car, go back to solo riding your bike and you won't be out an arm and a leg financially. And you won't have compromised your motorcycle.

Lonnie
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stickwelder
Posted 10/14/2005 4:40 PM (#10756 - in reply to #9717)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad


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Posts: 21
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Location: tallahassee florida
thanks for the info/further follow up, assuming we go full combo set up what are the modifications you would suggest or does that depend on the bike or the rig or both? At this point I'm thinking Ural? because of needed weight (ballast) Have no desire to spend a small fortune but demand a "safe" reasonably comfortable ride Total budget aprox 5,000. all recommendations greatly appreciated THAMKS stickwelder
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claude #3563
Posted 10/14/2005 5:18 PM (#10758 - in reply to #10756)
Subject: RE: Sidecar mounts for Nomad



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The URAL sidecar would be a decent match for you.
There is a dealer in Florida ,can't remember the name of his buisness right now, who has put Velorex sidecars on everything including 1500 wings. THIS DOES NOT MAKE, AND CANNOT MAKE IT RIGHT!
I had spent much time with an uninformed older gentleman who had a Velorex put onto a VALKARIE by this 'professional' and he finally got rid of it. Too bad simply too bad!!

Edited by claude #3563 10/14/2005 6:48 PM
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