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Stock rake angle
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ghostflames2002
Posted 9/14/2005 4:49 AM (#10017)
Subject: Stock rake angle



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Posts: 51
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Location: West Boylston Mass
I have read that modifying the rake angle will ease the steering on a sidecar rig. Since all brands and models of bikes have different rake angles, is there a rule of thumb degree of rake that would work without this modification? With this modification can the bike still be ridden as a two wheeler? Typically a two wheeler with an extended rake angle and long front end is more difficult to steer. Does modifying the rake angle actually bring the tire closer to being directly under the bars? If it does it would appear this modification may crowd the clearance between the tail end of the fender and the sidecar connections. trying to plan ahead. thanks
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claude #3563
Posted 9/14/2005 5:25 AM (#10019 - in reply to #10017)
Subject: RE: Stock rake angle



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Location: Middleburg, Pa
John,
The goal is to reduce steering effort by reducing trail. 'Rake' is typically related to th eangle of th esteering head itself and should not be confusted with trail. If an imaginary line were to be drawn down throiugh the steering head to ground level and another line was drawn vertically down to the ground through the centerline of th efront axle the difference in these two points is th e 'trail'. Reducing the trail translates into easier steering for a sidecar outfit or a trike.If you go to sidestrider.com there is a pretty good explaination on this and some diagrams. If you study the diagram you will see real quick what triple tree mods can do as well as a leading link installation.
You mentioned long front ends ...look at the diagram and visualize th egeometry changes that take place when the steering head angle is modified.
In the old days it was a wonder we didn't kill outselves from some of the things we did to steering head angles on those long bikes..some sure steeried funny but they looked cool right?
Typically today, with sidecars and trikes, the steering head is not even touched to make things work well.

Trail can be reduced various ways. Most common methods are through triple tree modifications which lay the forks down more as the front wheel is moved forward or by the installation of a leading link front end.
Usually it is not advised to ride the bike solo after trtail has been reduced.
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ghostflames2002
Posted 9/14/2005 11:02 AM (#10025 - in reply to #10017)
Subject: RE: Stock rake angle



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Posts: 51
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Location: West Boylston Mass
Thanks for the explantion Claude. I will check out sidestrider. John
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claude #3563
Posted 9/14/2005 11:10 AM (#10026 - in reply to #10025)
Subject: RE: Stock rake angle



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Location: Middleburg, Pa
John,
For a more detailed explaination you may want to go to google.com amd type in 'rake and trail'. The sites you find will not be sidecar specific but there is some great info there.
Also if you type in 'Tony Faole' you will get a lot of good info. I hope I spelled his name right.
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ghostflames2002
Posted 9/15/2005 2:03 PM (#10058 - in reply to #10017)
Subject: RE: Stock rake angle



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Posts: 51
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Location: West Boylston Mass
Did quite a bit of reading on this so far. Sounds like the key is to try things out first. Determine your trail before changing anything that would cause your trail to be below 2 inches and no greater than 6 inches. Now I know why that old chopper steered so bad. LOL John
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claude #3563
Posted 9/15/2005 2:38 PM (#10060 - in reply to #10058)
Subject: RE: Stock rake angle



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Location: Middleburg, Pa
The least expensive way to reduce th etrail is with the modified trees. A little more costly would be a leading link which also has the advantage of a built in anti-dive and more rigidity.
But...I feel you shoudl just try it stock for a while and see how you like it. Some can tolerate the heavy steering better than others. Remember to give yourself time to get used to it before making a decision. You can also run wioder bars and move th estock forks up higher into the stock trees. Wider bars give more leverage and moving the forks reduce trail slightly. A small diameter front tire would help reduce trail some too if something is available in a lower profile than stock. All these things seem small but when added up can make a diference for practically zero dollars.
Yep. it's wonder we survived on those old long bikes. None of us knew diddly about steering geometry and were just trying for a certain look. Lots of effort went in to taking a perfectly good cycle and making it almost unridable.... BUT WE LOOKED COOL DIDN'T WE...lol.
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stacebg
Posted 9/15/2005 3:52 PM (#10061 - in reply to #10058)
Subject: RE: Stock rake angle


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Posts: 68
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Location: e windsor ct
john
2" to 6" is okay for a 2 wheeler
as a rule of thumb i shoot for 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 on 3 wheels

6" would be a killer on 3

stacy
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ghostflames2002
Posted 9/15/2005 7:39 PM (#10069 - in reply to #10017)
Subject: RE: Stock rake angle



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Posts: 51
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Location: West Boylston Mass
Claude: Ihave the beach bars on the indian. I think there about 34" wide should get some leverage out of them. Yep the extended front ends were cool in fact I have a home made twisted springer in my basement. Dont want to part with it just in case I build somethin some day. Prtobably never happen.
Stacy: I wondered what the dimension was to shoot for with the sidecar. Most of what I read seemed to lean toward 4 inches as the max. Maybe I will measure mine just for kicks. Thanks All
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Hack'n
Posted 9/16/2005 3:06 PM (#10084 - in reply to #10069)
Subject: RE: Stock rake angle



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The main difference between the raked triple trees for sidehacking and the extended raked trees of yore is that when the trees were raked, the front end was extended with "slugs" or with longer fork legs, which made for even more trail and a bike that wanted to go straight ahead and tend to plow through the turns.
With the raked trees for 3 wheelers the original legs are normally used. That reduces trail and the caster effect that causes hard steering.

Lonnie
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