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Car tire on a sidecar??
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SidecarMike
Posted 11/6/2005 9:58 AM (#11359)
Subject: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin USA
Has anyone attempted to replace the tire and rim on a Dnepr or similar sidecar with an automotive one? I'm thinking about a 13" OR 14" to replace the 18" that's on it now. It would drop the sidecar down enough to better level it with the bike, and hopefully get me some mileage.
Although the bike tracks well and goes down the road without pull, I'm going through two or three sidecar tires a year. Since I switched the bike rear to a car tire, I'm getting 20K plus out of $80 tires. The front is good for about 12,000 miles, but I'm replacing sidecar tires every 3 to 4K.
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Bob in Wis
Posted 11/6/2005 10:05 AM (#11360 - in reply to #11359)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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WOW! I got 13,000 miles on my Terraplane 3.50X18 tire,Avon MKII , and it still was like new when I sold the tub.Are you sure the toe-in is a little as possible?It must be scrubbing a lot.
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SidecarMike
Posted 11/6/2005 10:12 AM (#11361 - in reply to #11360)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Barb and I measured it, and dropped it from 3/4 to 1/2" about 4000 miles ago but I have cords showing on the tire we put on then. It's not a big deal, the sidecar tire is easy enough to change. I've just been thinking about trying something different. At this rate I'll wear out another one before I put it away for the winter.

Edited by SidecarMike 11/6/2005 10:13 AM
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Bob in Wis
Posted 11/6/2005 10:42 AM (#11362 - in reply to #11359)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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set the toe-in close to zero less than 1/4" and try that. supposed to help with tire wear, rear bike and tub.my bike wears rear out in about 7000 miles.front has 13,000 like new.
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Hack'n
Posted 11/6/2005 12:10 PM (#11366 - in reply to #11359)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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I see no reason why the axle/hub of your choice can't be adapted to your Ural/Dnepr swing-arm.
I used to have an exchange swing-arm available for adapting Harley wheels till I lost my machinist.
The main thing to consider is the hub placemant and choice of wheel offset so that the tire is centered in the fender. Due to the flatter shape of the fender, the URAL looks better with a fatter tire.

Lonnie
Northwest Sidecar
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claude #3563
Posted 11/6/2005 12:45 PM (#11367 - in reply to #11366)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Location: Middleburg, Pa
Mike,
We do a lot of discussion on these boards, as you know , about sidecar setup. I see Bob made some suggestions that are typically pretty much correct in most cases...BUT ..setup on some rigs can be fine and you can still see some tire wear that kind of goes against the preceived logic. From my experience this type of thing is usually associated with a rig that has a large rear tire and asmall,narrow, sidecar tire. In these cases ,again from my viewpoint for what it's worth, it is due to the large bike tire simply 'overpowering' the skinny sidecar tire. Man, on most rigs sidecar tires last a long time but as you are noting here it is not always the case.
If you want to replace the Dnper with an automotive assembly or even a trailer wheel, hub and spindle it can be done. In fact I am doing another car wheel conversion to a Velorex right now. This particualar sidecar is going on a V Star. It will end up with more overall weight, an adjustable tilt and the car tire among other things. I just rigged a Dnper with an adjustable tilt device and did consider converting it to a different wheel too but did not.
I'd say to go for it. It will probably work well for you and look good too.
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SidecarMike
Posted 11/6/2005 2:11 PM (#11368 - in reply to #11367)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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So Claude, you think that eight inch wide Eagle could have something to do with it? :0)
My thought exactly. I'm thinking about trying a 155-13 or something similar over the winter layup. I just thought I'd check and see if anyone had tried it and could give me bearing numbers or hub suggestions. I see Northern Tool has $40 trailer hubs.
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Hack'n
Posted 11/6/2005 2:39 PM (#11370 - in reply to #11368)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Location: Boise, Idaho
Mike,
4 or 5 lug hubs on 4 1/2" centers are the most widely used ones. Depending upon your wheel choice. With Timken bearings to match. I would also suggest Bearing Buddies or a similar lubricator for good measure.

And weather protection.

Lonnie

Edited by Hack'n 11/6/2005 2:41 PM
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JayDauntless
Posted 11/6/2005 3:47 PM (#11371 - in reply to #11359)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??


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It is no problem to switch over to a 1 inch axle at which point you can go with most any trailer type hub you want. You could even use one of our hubs. We make hubs in 4 bolt on 100mm. 4 bolt on 100mm with a flange for a Brembo disk brake rotor and 4 bolt on 4 inch with a flange for a Brembo rotor.
We have also laced hubs to run the stock drum brake and a 15 inch rim to run a 135 15 car tire.
If you are looking to mainly lower the sidecar we make a kit for Ural sidecar (will not work with a Dnepr) by simply raising the axle on the end of the swing arm and then raising the fender to clear the tire. In the case of the Ural we make a new swing arm frame scratch and replace the rubber busings with bearings. We can set this up to still run the stock drum brake or go to a disk brake using either a Ural wheel or the wheel of your choice.
Jay Giese
Dauntless Motors Corporation
www.dauntlessmotors.com
866-638-1793
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claude #3563
Posted 11/6/2005 4:10 PM (#11374 - in reply to #11371)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Well Mike as you can see there are a lot of options. One other one is to redo the swingarm slightly to lower the chair and then mount the fender to the swingarm so it moves with it. If you did go this route you can put the fender real close to the tire and it looks good with the right tire, you know the old aerodynamic Dnper look.
You can also get rid of the 'hoop' and go to an adjustable torsion bar suspension and have a built in tilt adjustment similar to Motorvation's setup. This deal works quite well with no shock on it...or on ecan be added. Don't tell anyone but the old lever shocks off of some of th eolder british cars work great in a cramped area. Many of them have a aluminum body too that cleans up real neat. You can change th eweight of th eoil in them too. You can also make the swingarm into a bell crank deal and mount a conventional shock horizontally.(A smallish skid plate may be in order for some but I guess you don't usually do any baja runs wiuth that Valkarie right?
Oh, the 4x4 bolt pattern and others will allow you to run a stock 15 x 3 1/2 polished centerline wheel which does look great. (Polished is 125 bucks or so..satin is cheaper) Just ordered one for the Velorex project. You can then run a 165r15 or the more expensive 135r15. The 135 is availble from coker tire and will give you about a 23" rolling diameter though which lowers the sidecar in itself but looks weird with the stock Dnper or Ural fender.The 165 tire is about 26" in diameter and does look good with either fender.
Heck man the options are almost unlimited..LOL.
How about we can the whole idea and head to Florida and go bass fishing?
Call me is you wish .. we are sitting here waiting for Tony Stewart to win this NASCAR Race so we should be home
(570) 837-5182


Edited by claude #3563 11/9/2005 6:14 AM
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LDuck
Posted 11/6/2005 4:17 PM (#11375 - in reply to #11359)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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And the Lord said (not really) if Bill Elliot can’t win it then it would be a good thing for the 20 car to win it!
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SidecarMike
Posted 11/6/2005 4:58 PM (#11376 - in reply to #11374)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Originally written by claude #3563 on 11/6/2005 5:10 PM

Call me is you wish .. we are sitting here waiting for Tony Stewart to win this NASCAR Race so we should be home
(570) 837-5182


Sorry, Packer Game takes precedence.

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RedMenace
Posted 11/6/2005 9:06 PM (#11387 - in reply to #11359)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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I did this on the Ural i had mated to my Speed Triple. Went to the junkyard,got the brake plate off a Honda Civic. Drilled some flat plate to match the bolts welded the plate to the swingarm, bolted the brakes up and bolted a four hole wheel from a Yugo to that. Dropped the sidecar down about 6". Worked great, very simple to do. I'd post a picture if I knew how
I ended up using a trailer fender I put the Ural runing lights on. Looked pretty good.

Edited by RedMenace 11/6/2005 9:09 PM
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SidecarMike
Posted 11/6/2005 9:14 PM (#11389 - in reply to #11387)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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I'd like to see what it would look like. I guess my biggest concern is it's appearance. If you can't get it to post in the Album, how about sending it to me? Thanks
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claude #3563
Posted 11/6/2005 9:19 PM (#11391 - in reply to #11389)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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If you are cruising the boneyards looking for a candidate take a peek at the mid eighties K Cars. I have used the rear spindles and hubs from these for various applications from sidecars to homemade trailers. They are a simple bolt on deal using four bolts. You can even retain the drum brake if desired or convert to a disc.
If you use the centerline wheel mentioned above you can run a 165r15 tire that will work with the Ural type fender.

Edited by claude #3563 11/6/2005 9:29 PM
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sidebuggy
Posted 11/6/2005 9:54 PM (#11393 - in reply to #11387)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??


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Vernon.....

Whee do you buy tires to fit that rim? I have a friend that junked his Yugo (he said it was junk when he bought it) because he couldn't find tires. He found a set in England,but the stock ran out so he hauled it to the wrecking yard and donated it.

budamy
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RedMenace
Posted 11/7/2005 1:29 AM (#11395 - in reply to #11393)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Location: GoodLiver, Oregon
Originally written by Bud Amy on 11/6/2005 6:54 PM


Vernon.....

Whee do you buy tires to fit that rim? I have a friend that junked his Yugo (he said it was junk when he bought it) because he couldn't find tires. He found a set in England,but the stock ran out so he hauled it to the wrecking yard and donated it.

budamy

The wheel came with the tire mounted from the wreckers. My buddy totaled the bike before I needed to replace it....


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RedMenace
Posted 11/7/2005 1:36 AM (#11396 - in reply to #11389)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Bandit Bill
Posted 11/8/2005 9:15 PM (#11431 - in reply to #11391)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Originally written by claude #3563 on 11/6/2005 9:19 PM

If you are cruising the boneyards looking for a candidate take a peek at the mid eighties K Cars. I have used the rear spindles and hubs from these for various applications from sidecars to homemade trailers. They are a simple bolt on deal using four bolts. You can even retain the drum brake if desired or convert to a disc.
If you use the centerline wheel mentioned above you can run a 165r15 tire that will work with the Ural type fender.


Look at Isuzu Storm, Impulse/Asüna Sunfire (CDN GM reskin of the Impulse) rear spindle assemblies also. Uses the same familiar 4x100mm hub pattern, which shares a huge selection of rim sizes available, from 10"-15". The special thing about the Impulse/Sunfire setup is it is a modular spindle assembly bolting on flat, and it's stock equipped with a rotor, not drum. Any machine shop worth it's salt can turn the rotor down for you to motorcycle scale caliper specs for $30.00. Huge variety of rim options available.

For US based DIY'ers, it's not yet a real option until the Smart Car comes to the north american market in volume, but in Europe, it's becoming more common to adapt the rim and spindle assemblies from the MCC/Daimler Smart Car, which uses a 15" rim, in front 4.0 - 145/55R15 rims, and rear 5.5" - 175/55R15 rims, on a three bolt pattern modular spindle hub with choice of rotor or drum. I've seen several photo's from European rallies, of rigs popping up with recogniseable conversions done using the Smart Car components, and it makes sense, since the scale and weight of the rim is more in line with what is needed for the stresses of a sidecar, vs the relative over-kill of the parts originally scaled and constructed for a 3000 lb car.

I originally planned to go with the latter Smart Car option for my own damaged suspension setup, and went so far as to end up with a $140.00 spindle assembly as a desk paperweight now, but then decided to go with the former Japanese spec parts, which have more commonality, parts availability and interchangeability as the choice for my garage hi-jinks this winter.

You can get LOST in junkyards, I know i have a few times the past few months on a lazy saturday afternoon. You know you should maybe tone it down some with the visits, when the counter monkeys start pulling stuff off wrecks and putting it aside for inspection later, and the compound guard dog starts getting overly friendly with you lol.


Edited by Bandit Bill 11/8/2005 9:21 PM
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naughtyf9
Posted 11/23/2005 10:34 PM (#11791 - in reply to #11359)
Subject: Dnepr on VTX1800 Hyd disk brake trailer wheel


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Interesting forum. I am modifying a Dpner sidecar to attach to a VTX1800. My plan is to use a cast aluminum wheel from a trailer supply (about $90 new)GBC #545545. Their directional design is a great match with my stock Honda cast wheels.
Spindle, 1 3/8 x 1 1/16, w/grease zerk $20. Stainless disk brake hub w/ calipers and hardware $100.

Has anyone used a hydraulic quick disconnect plummed into the bikes brake system?
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Bob in Wis
Posted 11/23/2005 11:33 PM (#11793 - in reply to #11359)
Subject: RE: Car tire on a sidecar??



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Location: milwaukee, wi. area
Mike, I dont think a wider 'car tire' will make any difference if you are grinding off regular sidecar tires at 3-4000 miles. something else is making them wear out that fast. You could be replacing the car tires at 4-5000 miles, if it isnt set right.
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