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Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting
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WashCI
Posted 8/27/2007 4:13 PM (#28997)
Subject: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting


Posts: 27
Location: Seabeck, WA
The Board will meet on Sep 7th at the Moses Lake Licensing office. The meeting begins at 7pm.

If you have any questions or concerns about motorcycles in Washington and how the Department approaches them, this is the place to get your message heard.

The next quarterly meeting will be held Dec 7, 2007 at the Lacey Licensing office.
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claude #3563
Posted 8/28/2007 7:00 AM (#29008 - in reply to #28997)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Thanks Steve.
I would suggest that anyone who is in Washington state contact a board member named James Wihlborg who is said to be an ABATE member and furnish him with a link to this website and this section of sidecar.com and the thread titled 'Washington State Licensing Changes' .
I would also suggest that ABATE in general be informed of this action and also be encouraged to read the information here.
James Wihlborg
1115 North Custer Street
Oak Harbor WA 98277-1941
Phone: (360) 679-3028
Term expires: June 30, 2008
SEE:
http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/motoboardmeetings.html

Edited by claude #3563 8/28/2007 7:08 AM
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Mark 42
Posted 8/28/2007 2:35 PM (#29027 - in reply to #29008)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
I called and left a message with his wife (very nice lady BTW).

Hopefully he will have time to print out and read the message thread
(it's really too big to read on screen, at least for me it is, I'm
an old-timer and like to read from paper)

Here is a fairly good place to jump into the message thread for
those who dan't have time to read it all:

http://www.sidecar.com/megabbs/thread-view.asp?threadid=507&start=7...

I finally got my endorsement this morning (another $10 to update my
license in addition to $30 earlier... and unbelievable inconvenience
and expense to do the whole process... which has so few participants
that it doesn't warrant resources... which backs up my assertion that
it is insignificant enough that there is no need for special regulation of 3-wheelers).

Now if I can get the ferry system to recognize that trikes and sidecars
should not cost almost as much as a car for a month of commuting to work.
(Sidecar rigs are about 1/2 the length of a midsize car).

Edited by Mark 42 8/28/2007 2:44 PM
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Mark 42
Posted 9/3/2007 9:53 PM (#29180 - in reply to #28997)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
So, does anybody know what happened?

I would imagine meeting minutes are online somewhere, right?
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Hack'n
Posted 9/4/2007 1:29 AM (#29183 - in reply to #29180)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 4833
Location: Boise, Idaho
He said the meeting is on the 7th of September, Mark. Next Friday.
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Mark 42
Posted 9/4/2007 12:27 PM (#29203 - in reply to #28997)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
D'oh!
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Mark 42
Posted 9/5/2007 6:25 PM (#29273 - in reply to #28997)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
From Evergreen Safety Coucil's Website

Washington St. subsidizes many of our classes for State residents ($125).
Additional classes have been added at a higher price to meet demand ($225).
Other than price and availability, all classes are identical.

Funny how more money induces availability of classes.
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claude #3563
Posted 9/5/2007 10:10 PM (#29285 - in reply to #29273)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Originally written by Mark 42 on 9/5/2007 6:25 PM

From Evergreen Safety Coucil's Website

Washington St. subsidizes many of our classes for State residents ($125).
Additional classes have been added at a higher price to meet demand ($225).
Other than price and availability, all classes are identical.

Funny how more money induces availability of classes.


Funny? Not really...but...it is all about money no doubt.

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claude #3563
Posted 9/5/2007 10:11 PM (#29286 - in reply to #29285)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Originally written by claude #3563 on 9/5/2007 10:10 PM

Originally written by Mark 42 on 9/5/2007 6:25 PM

From Evergreen Safety Coucil's Website

Washington St. subsidizes many of our classes for State residents ($125).
Additional classes have been added at a higher price to meet demand ($225).
Other than price and availability, all classes are identical.

Funny how more money induces availability of classes.


Funny? Not really...but...not surprizing at all either.



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Mark 42
Posted 9/6/2007 2:07 PM (#29307 - in reply to #29285)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
Originally written by claude #3563 on 9/5/2007 7:10 PM

Originally written by Mark 42 on 9/5/2007 6:25 PM
Funny how more money induces availability of classes.


Funny? Not really...but...it is all about money no doubt.

Not if you're on the receiving end...
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5254963

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claude #3563
Posted 12/3/2007 6:38 AM (#31411 - in reply to #29307)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Whatever happened in this advisory board meeting .,..anyone know?
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WashCI
Posted 12/6/2007 10:16 AM (#31508 - in reply to #31411)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting


Posts: 27
Location: Seabeck, WA
The minutes will be posted as soon as the board approves them.

Basically, there was a quick discussion about cable barriers and the Rider's Edge training program.

A board member presented the concerns that were posted here about testing facilities and I responded to the board with the information I presented here. The board members understood the explaination of examiner proficiency and no further discussion followed.

The next meeting is tomorrow night (Dec 7th) at the Lacey Licensing Office. It will begin at 7pm. The agenda includes a DOT rep to talk about cable barriers and a Rider's Edge update.
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Hack'n
Posted 12/6/2007 1:31 PM (#31521 - in reply to #31508)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 4833
Location: Boise, Idaho
Back in the 50's and 60's Washington used the cables on Hiway 99 around the Centralia and Kelso ares. I believe they stayed till the I-5 freeway was completed through there.
We riders used to call them "Cheese slicers". In the late 60's one of my neighbors was beheaded when he ran into a cable barrier on his Yamaha.

They weren't safe then and they aren't safe now.

Lonnie
(Former Washingtonian)
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Mark 42
Posted 12/6/2007 2:49 PM (#31523 - in reply to #31521)
Subject: RE: Cheese Slicers



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
As an design enginner, I took one look at them and said
"Who in the heck would think those are safer?

Another interesting tidbit... the ones on highway 16 are
not even aligned well between posts... no quality and pride
in workmanship like there used to be among professionals.

It's sad that people don't give a rat's $%#@ about what
their work looks like, as long as it meets requirements.
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claude #3563
Posted 12/6/2007 4:58 PM (#31525 - in reply to #31508)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
WASHCI,
Appreciate the reponse to the question I just posted.
Gotta say though I can see why you didn't post any info here earlier. The meeting was when? September 7th?
Seems like from what you wrote the issues presented here were pretty much blown off and that even seems to be confirmed by what you said was on the agenda for the 7th of December.
You also said the minutes would be posted as soon as 'the board' approves them? Don't you think that maybe this is a tad inefficient being as the next meeting is December 7th...which is tomorrow?
Sounds like getting the mess implemented was sure a lot more efficient than getting the problems with it addressed a little.
Of course I am sure the pros can descibe very eloquently why a lowly citizen such as myself can't grasp how all of this has to come about.
Things such as 'We th ePeople' and ' a goverment by the people and for the people' just doesn't have quite the meaning it did in years past.
How much coffee was consumed at that meeting anyhow. Did everyone have a good time? Anyone doze off after a day on the golf course?
Sorry for being candid and not politcally correct. Hope you are not offended. Oh and if you repond be sure to focus on what doesn't mean much. That's what most of the pros have learned to do quite well.
Condescend a little if you wish we will understand.
Too bad.


Edited by claude #3563 12/6/2007 5:13 PM
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WashCI
Posted 12/6/2007 5:24 PM (#31526 - in reply to #31525)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting


Posts: 27
Location: Seabeck, WA
Yeah you could say I'm offended.

I spent 20 years in the Navy so you could do that though. Not sure about your service to "for the people" but that's ok I paid the dues for you.

I do my job with a very clear idea of who I work for, the riders, and other citizens, of the state of Washington. Just because those folks don't agree with your opinions is not my issue.

If you have constructive comments and solutions please share, although as a PA resident, I have no idea what Washington issues have anything to do with you.

Have a Merry Christmas.
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claude #3563
Posted 12/6/2007 5:31 PM (#31527 - in reply to #31525)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
TO WASHCI,
If my comments haven't made me into a total fool in you eyes yet I do have a question. I had asked Al Olme this a few days back and he didn't know and hoped Dave wendal woudl respond to it.
Anyhow it has been stated that at the 2008 USCA Rally to be hosted by Mr. Olme there will be a S/TEP training and also possibly an instructors course. Mr. Olme saif that the instructors course would be taught by Dave Wendal and the basic training woudl be taught by the new instructors under th eclose eye of Mr. wendall.
My question is in reference to what you wrote here at sidecar.com in reponse to Vernon about training being approved in Washington state if the course was taken in other states. You had said Vernon's dirt course training woudl not be approved and then stated the following:
>>> Subject : RE: Washington State Licensing Changes
Posted : 8/9/2007 11:22 AM
Post #28329 - In reply to #1998
We do accept training from other states that have the same training standards as our own (2 & 3 wheel).<<<
So, from this can we rest assured that if someone takes the course at the USCA National Rally in '08 In Del;uth Minnesota it will count towards their endorsemant in Washington State? To be consistant th eanswer should be yes. If not please explain.
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claude #3563
Posted 12/6/2007 5:42 PM (#31528 - in reply to #31526)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Uh..that response did not surprise me.
I did have what were constructive views in that post but you did not comment on them.
Why woud I be concerned with what has happened in washington state even though I am not from there? First off I do have concerns about fellow sidecarists no matter where they are from. Secondly I do not want to see what has happened in Washington to spread to other areas. By voicing how we feel here it may just help others to be able to see where the downfalls are and possibly avoid them in the future.
Oh by the way I am a Viet Nam vet. I was in the army and also the mechant marines over there. I was not drafted by the way.
With all due respect!


Edited by claude #3563 12/6/2007 5:44 PM
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WashCI
Posted 12/6/2007 5:43 PM (#31529 - in reply to #31527)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting


Posts: 27
Location: Seabeck, WA
If it's done as part of the state program and a Minnesota completion card is issued, yes.

As you noted in my quote, we accept training from state programs not private programs.
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claude #3563
Posted 12/6/2007 5:47 PM (#31530 - in reply to #31529)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Originally written by WashCI on 12/6/2007 5:43 PM

If it's done as part of the state program and a Minnesota completion card is issued, yes.

As you noted in my quote, we accept training from state programs not private programs.


Thank You and hope the meeting goes well tomorrow and that maybe the moinutes to the one held last quarter may even get approved.

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WashCI
Posted 12/6/2007 5:52 PM (#31532 - in reply to #31528)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting


Posts: 27
Location: Seabeck, WA
Tell you what, if you lay out your constructive views (vice insulting what you don't agree with) and I'll try again to answer them.

It's good to know you've paid your dues too, but painting me as some kind of bureaucrat when you know nothing about me or my ethics isn't how most folks that have stood the watch react...at least not in my travels.

Oh yeah, no draft for me either.
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claude #3563
Posted 12/6/2007 7:06 PM (#31535 - in reply to #31532)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Appreciate the reponse.
I can see why you didn't post any info here earlier. The meeting was when? September 7th?
Seems like from what you wrote the issues presented here were pretty much blown off and that even seems to be confirmed by what you said was on the agenda for the 7th of December.
You also said the minutes would be posted as soon as 'the board' approves them? Don't you think that maybe this is a tad inefficient being as the next meeting is December 7th...which is tomorrow?

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themickeyd
Posted 12/7/2007 6:28 PM (#31565 - in reply to #31526)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting


Posts: 8
Location: Lakewood, WA 98499
Originally written by WashCI on 12/6/2007 3:24 PM

Yeah you could say I'm offended.I spent 20 years in the Navy so you could do that though. Not sure about your service to "for the people" but that's ok I paid the dues for you.
This is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. And that is saying alot since I work for the Feds. Choosing to serve your country is not limited by time in the Armed Forces for one and It also has nothing to do with Sidecars or this thread.

Edited by themickeyd 12/7/2007 6:48 PM
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WashCI
Posted 12/7/2007 6:48 PM (#31566 - in reply to #31565)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting


Posts: 27
Location: Seabeck, WA
You're opinion...

Are you saying that the military isn't service or that the freedoms we enjoy were not paid for in the blood of military members throughout America's history?
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themickeyd
Posted 12/7/2007 6:56 PM (#31567 - in reply to #31566)
Subject: RE: Washington Motorcycle Safety Education Advisory Board meeting


Posts: 8
Location: Lakewood, WA 98499
Originally written by WashCI on 12/7/2007 4:48 PM

You're opinion...Are you saying that the military isn't service or that the freedoms we enjoy were not paid for in the blood of military members throughout America's history?
Wow, you do have a problem. It isn't the only way to serve the country and if you choose to serve due to your wishes great. But don't think that people who choose other ways to serve limits their ability to voice their opinions. The load of crap mainly that this NOTHING to do with the thread or sidecars. You'll find more sidecars in other countrys as well.
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