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Washington State Licensing Changes
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WashCI
Posted 8/9/2007 10:42 PM (#28360 - in reply to #1998)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes


Posts: 27
Location: Seabeck, WA
Well folks I've tried to honestly answer your questions but it appears you're not interested in looking at it objectively. I wish you all well. I will continue to work enthusiastically with WA riders to improve our program.
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claude #3563
Posted 8/9/2007 10:52 PM (#28361 - in reply to #28360)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
I am sorry if you got ruffled by some of th equestions presented here. I also aplogize if you feel you are geting ganged up on but there are some legitimate concerns being expressed here. Anyhow, Thanks Steve sorry you are bailing out so soon. You had some good input. Maybe someone who is a more qualified director of something will be willing to respond to the people this law has affected and possibly will be affecting as days go by. Maybe some of the questions presented here will be at least addresed at some point and not skipped over.Thanks for trying anyhow I suppose.
Objectively,
Claude

Edited by claude #3563 8/9/2007 10:58 PM
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RedMenace
Posted 8/9/2007 11:26 PM (#28363 - in reply to #28357)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 673
Location: GoodLiver, Oregon
Originally written by claude #3563 on 8/9/2007 7:16 PM

Hey Vernon after reading your post would you think the word 'F I A S C O'
may just possibly apply to all of this washington State stuff afterall?


I don't know Claude. I still think it is a good program, founded on good intentions.

I may have come down a little hard on Steve, but I am frustrated and I don't think the equation he is using to determine if three wheelers are getting "their fair share" addresses the real issues here: the legislature intended there be easy access to both testing and training when they enacted this legislation and the current approach has failed to provide that.

That doesn't mean it can't be fixed and it doesn't mean it is not a potentially great program or that it is a complete failure or a fiasco...and it certainly doesn't mean Steve or the other folks involved are not good folks.

By the way, Steve is THE guy for the training programs...

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claude #3563
Posted 8/10/2007 6:43 AM (#28367 - in reply to #28363)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa


Originally written by claude #3563 on 8/9/2007 7:16 PM

Hey Vernon after reading your post would you think the word 'F I A S C O'
may just possibly apply to all of this washington State stuff afterall?

..............................................................
Originally written by RedMenace on 8/9/2007 11:26 PMI don't know Claude. I still think it is a good program, founded on good intentions.

I may have come down a little hard on Steve, but I am frustrated and I don't think the equation he is using to determine if three wheelers are getting "their fair share" addresses the real issues here: the legislature intended there be easy access to both testing and training when they enacted this legislation and the current approach has failed to provide that.

That doesn't mean it can't be fixed and it doesn't mean it is not a potentially great program or that it is a complete failure or a fiasco...and it certainly doesn't mean Steve or the other folks involved are not good folks.

By the way, Steve is THE guy for the training programs...
.....................................................................

The fiasco is not the training class itself it is the governemt madate for it and the failure (fiasco) of being able to pull it off properly. Just as you wrote:
"the legislature intended there be easy access to both testing and training when they enacted this legislation and the current approach has failed to provide that."
Fail = fiasco Look up the word.
YOU ALSO WROTE:
'Steve is THE guy for the training programs...'
THE guy? I am impressed that THE guy was willing to come on and comment. That was big of him. Too bad THE guy could (would?) not respond to many of THE comments and questions.
Maybe he will do better with ABATE than the ones who this legislation directly affects.
Oh by the way Vernon your classes are great and I am all for them. The post you did refering to your comunication with Washington state did have FIASCO written all ovcer it though! Look up the definition of the word.
And Steve I did not say YOU called me a 'nobody' as that was a term I brought up. Should have just said I was a 'Voice crying in the wilderness'.
Good to see you, Steve,(the guy) join in even if for a breif time. Hope that even if you are upset you will still possibly consider thinking about what some of 'the people' may have had to say to you 'the guy'.







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Mark 42
Posted 8/10/2007 10:43 AM (#28372 - in reply to #28361)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
My question never got answered:
Were three wheelers crashing at a rate that warranted a requirement
for testing, licensing and compulsory education?

It seems to me that a complicated system was implimented
where a need never existed. All of this could have been
done on a voluntary basis instead of a costly legislative
requirement that is a nightmare for the end user.

You're right, I'm probably not going to be convinced that the
3-wheel specific endorsement is a good idea. So far, I have seen
absolutely no evidence that supports the need for a special license.

A trike is not a 180,000 pound big rig that is driven 250,000 miles
per year for long hourse each day. A trike isn't even as disimalar
from a 2-wheeler as a motorhome is from a passenger car (nor will
it likely see as many miles).

There is no need for a special 3-wheel endorsement. The fees already
collected for motorcycle endorsements could have been used to subsidize
3-wheel training. A 3-wheel only caveat on the license of those who
do not want to take a 2-wheel test could be added, but even that is
not necessary given the low likelihood that a person who took his
test on a 3-wheeler would then jump onto a 2-wheeler w/o adequate
practice.


It's all a solution where a problem never existed to begin with!




Edited by Mark 42 8/10/2007 10:54 AM
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claude #3563
Posted 8/10/2007 10:17 PM (#28407 - in reply to #1998)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
You're kidding. Your question never got answered? I am amazed.Afterall the main guy was here but left I suppose. Guess what yours was no tth eonly question that was not answered or comment that was not responded to. Oh well maybe ABATE will provide some input at some point.
I agree with your post.
I also agree that training is a good thing. We spend much time at the shop helping new sidecarists get the basics. I also promote Hal's material whenever possible. We also typically do some type of sidecar session related to training at the RON DEE VOO each year.
Hope this type of legislation does not go into other states. Hope that if and when it is on the table for discussion that others who count know what's up unlike when the Washington State thing got passed.
Yep...The defintion of 'for the people and by the people' isn't that clear sometimes.



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Al Olme
Posted 8/15/2007 3:49 PM (#28585 - in reply to #28361)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes


Posts: 1732
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
This message is being posted here because Dave Wendell is having troble getting it posted. There is no effort on anyone's part that I know of to keep Dave from posting so here is his post.

I've read through the entire thread on sidecar.com now and I'm
somewhat amazed.

First off, I'm being credited (accused?) of doing things I had
nothing to do with. Second, I think Steve (who is the Washington
Motorcycle Safety Program Director) went out of his way to answer
questions by many of you. It's unfortunate that some of you can't
seem to understand many of the things he said.

I went through all of this years ago on the yahoo sidecar forum, but
to reiterate a few points from that epic-length novel -- I never
wanted S/TEP training to be part of the state program. As the
program manager at Evergreen I was perfectly content to keep the
training in the private sector. Lonnie Cook is the one who pushed
the issue with State Senator Mary Margaret Haugen. I was put in the
position of allowing her original bad legislation to become law, or
re-write it so that it was (more) equitable to WA residents. I had
nothing to do with writing the original Sidecar/Trike Operator manual
for the state, or writing the current written test that the state
uses for a 3-wheeled endorsement; nor did I have anything to do with
devising the riding test. Although I was contracted by the DoL to
make corrections to their manual, none of those corrections have ever
actually been implemented. I was also recently contacted by the
person who is rewriting the written DoL test for a 3-wheeled
endorsement, and he and I spoke at length about getting rid of some
of the more inane questions and sticking to asking things that are
actually in the state's manual.

The challenges currently facing WA residents to get subsidized
training and/or DoL testing are EXACTLY the reasons I didn't want
this to become part of the state program. However, I did work my
butt off trying to get the law passed once it was put to me that I
could either do that or allow Senator Haugen's original, very badly
worded legislation to become law. (If Claude or anyone else thinks
the current law is a fiasco, you would REALLY be screaming if the
originally proposed legislation had gone through.)

Claude asked what hat I was wearing when the law went into effect.
When the law was written and proposed to the legislature I was the
Director of Rider Education for the WRRA, as well as the Program
Manager for motorcycle safety training at Evergreen. By the time the
law went into effect I was no longer at Evergreen. At the present
time I'm no longer the WRRA's Dir. of Rider Ed. either. I am still a
S/TEP certified Chief Instructor, and since David Hough retired, I am
the current President of the Sidecar Safety Program. (Claude please
note that the letters "USCA" have been officially removed from the
registered name of the corporation. That was one of the first things
that happened after I took over, although David Hough had actually
put the wheels in motion to make it happen before he retired.)

As for the statements posted from Rich Bright with ABATE of WA,
ABATE's representative on the Washington Motorcycle Safety Program
Advisory Board, a gentleman by the name of Rafael Garcia, personally
told me when we (the WRRA) were pushing the legislation to require a
3-wheeled endorsement, that ABATE was totally on board and behind us
on the issue. It wasn't until after the legislation was passed that
ABATE's BoD suddenly became loudly opposed to the whole thing and
denied having any knowledge of it beforehand. Apparently Mr. Garcia
didn't have the authority he thought he had to speak for ABATE.
Unfortunately none of us in the WRRA knew that at the time. We
thought ABATE was completely with us on the issue based on Mr.
Garcia's statements to us.

I'm posting this here because sidecar.com apparently won't accept my
post to it's site. Every time I try it gets rejected. Hmmmm,
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Mark 42
Posted 8/15/2007 4:16 PM (#28586 - in reply to #28585)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
Thank you for responding (both of you).

Some interesting info, for sure.

I wonder if we could impliment an initiative to remove the endorsement
requirement until testing resources are available at the same level as
they are for two wheel endorsements.

Perhaps go back to the "Grandfather Clause" until there are reources for
testing in at least 75% of the motorcycle test sites?

But let me reiterate - THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE THREE WHEEL ENDORSEMENT
FOR RIDERS WHO ARE ALREADY MOTORCYCLE ENDORSED!!

Edited by Mark 42 8/15/2007 4:18 PM
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hatteraswest
Posted 8/15/2007 8:03 PM (#28594 - in reply to #28360)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes


Posts: 2
Location: White Salmon, WA
As a WA state resident and sidecar owner, I feel compelled to comment on this thread, and leave decorum and political correctness on the side of the road for a few minutes....

First, this law is a glaring example of the end result of people with good intentions seeking to prove they know what's best for everyone else and drafting a law simply because they could, not because it any tangible need existed for it. The fact that the other 49 states get along just fine without it (and so did WA) just reinforces the overreaching, overbearing, unecessary aspect of the whole affair.

In short, it is simply asinine.

Second, the state’s inability to provide the training and testing resources they required with this piece of legislation is simply adding insult to injury and renders the entire situation even more egregious.

Let this be a lesson to all of you with too little IQ to thoroughly think through your next act of good intent. Next time, just shut the f*&^ up and leave everybody else alone.

We’ll be fine. Honest.
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Shadow1100T
Posted 8/15/2007 8:39 PM (#28595 - in reply to #1998)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 619
Location: Leavenworth Washington
OK OK enough with pointing fingers and calling names, why not concentrate on how we, as a whole, can rid ourselves of this mess, what do we have to do, get in touch with Tim Eymen?, is there anybody that can give GOOD advise on what the procedure is to get things changed in reference to this 3 wheel mess.
Enough chest thumping, foot stomping and I'm right and Your wrong, if letters need to be written,,,lets do it, if phone calls need to be done,,,lets do it,,,WHAT ever it takes LETS DO IT, I'm not happy the way things are going and neither are a LOT of you, there's been mistakes made, lets do what we can to rectify them.
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Mark 42
Posted 8/16/2007 11:18 AM (#28622 - in reply to #28595)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
As an aside...
My efforts to get rid of this requirement are not really self serving,
by the time any change occurs (or even a process to change things is
initiated) it wil be a mott point for me. One week from Saturday I will
be taking the riding skills test.

Barring some sort of ridiculous technicality I should have no problem
passing the test. I've read several books on riding technique and
practiced, as well as riding a few hundred miles on surface streets
through industrial and residential areas (South Park, White Center,
West Seattle, Tukwila, Port Orchard/Olalla and the Greenlake/Wallingford
district).

By the time I even get to the test, I will either be able to ride or dead.

Hmm... Tim Eyman... maybe that'd keep him out of trouble.

Edited by Mark 42 8/16/2007 1:56 PM
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claude #3563
Posted 8/21/2007 2:46 AM (#28801 - in reply to #28585)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
If you all want to see the stuff Dave spoke of at SCT. I think this
link will get you going. It is a 7 part lomg winded thing and will
take some time to sift through.
This was from 2004.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/message/20628

Claude
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claude #3563
Posted 8/21/2007 2:51 AM (#28802 - in reply to #28801)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Posted this at SIDECARISSUES in response to Dave's post and felt it should be posted here as well.
,,,
Dave, my responses are witin the >>> <<<< marks below.
Deja Voo my friend
Claude

I've read through the entire thread on sidecar.com now and I'm
somewhat amazed.
>> Why?<<<

First off, I'm being credited (accused?) of doing things I had
nothing to do with. Second, I think Steve (who is the Washington
Motorcycle Safety Program Director) went out of his way to answer
questions by many of you. It's unfortunate that some of you can't
seem to understand many of the things he said.

>> There was no complaint with the ones he attempted to answer. I think the main issues were the ones he didn't reply to. Too bad.<<

I went through all of this years ago on the yahoo sidecar forum, but
to reiterate a few points from that epic-length novel --

>> The discussion is recorded at 'SCT' and 'SIDECARISSUES'. Note that these are a Yahoo sites. Messge #42 at SIDECARISSUES is interesting. I would suggest if anyone wishes to look through all of the mumbo jumbo related to this at SCT feel free to do so. I think this
link will get you going. It is a 7 part loNg winded thing and will
take some time to sift through.
This was from 2004.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/message/20628

<<

I never
wanted S/TEP training to be part of the state program. As the
program manager at Evergreen I was perfectly content to keep the
training in the private sector.
>> From 'Sound Rider' (Washington based):
Washington State has been very progressive in the last few years with instituting a sidecar and trike training program and changing laws concerning 3 wheel endorsements. The efforts of David Hough, who wrote the original training curriculum – and Dave Wendell, who pushed recent legislation through Olympia, have put Washington at the front of the 50 states for being the most advanced in laws and available training (some of which will be subsidized by the state beginning 2003).
Read the rest of this S/TEP 'ad' by clicking here:
http://www.soundrider.com/archive/safety-skills/STEP.htm<<
The link came from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_L._Hough

Lonnie Cook is the one who pushed
the issue with State Senator Mary Margaret Haugen. I was put in the
position of allowing her original bad legislation to become law, or
re-write it so that it was (more) equitable to WA residents. I had
nothing to do with writing the original Sidecar/Trike Operator manual
for the state, or writing the current written test that the state
uses for a 3-wheeled endorsement; nor did I have anything to do with
devising the riding test. Although I was contracted by the DoL to
make corrections to their manual, none of those corrections have ever
actually been implemented. I was also recently contacted by the
person who is rewriting the written DoL test for a 3-wheeled
endorsement, and he and I spoke at length about getting rid of some
of the more inane questions and sticking to asking things that are
actually in the state's manual.

>>> Pretty confusing that no one seems to want to take credit or maybe blame for all of this being implemented or mention who did write what for who at what point . If Evergreen is getting a part of their normal training fee paid for by the state and if their course is allowed to be approved in lieu of taking the state test it sure would seem that they woud have an interest of some kind in a law that allows them to do this <<

The challenges currently facing WA residents to get subsidized
training and/or DoL testing are EXACTLY the reasons I didn't want
this to become part of the state program. However, I did work my
butt off trying to get the law passed once it was put to me that I
could either do that or allow Senator Haugen's original, very badly
worded legislation to become law. (If Claude or anyone else thinks
the current law is a fiasco, you would REALLY be screaming if the
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Shadow1100T
Posted 8/21/2007 3:08 AM (#28803 - in reply to #28801)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 619
Location: Leavenworth Washington
This seems to only be used by registered members, I was hoping to be able to read what was said with out joining, is that possible Claude?

Ted
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claude #3563
Posted 8/21/2007 7:11 AM (#28805 - in reply to #28803)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Ted,
Sidecarissues and SCT are Yahoo sites so you have to get a Yahoo name and password. This isn't a big deal to do. I would sugest that once joined that you edit your membership especially at SCT so you will have to go to the site to read messages. SCT can generate a lot of posts and you may not want to receive that many emails.
Sorry that this seems cumbersome but it is a free site and many do enjoy it.
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claude #3563
Posted 8/21/2007 7:31 AM (#28807 - in reply to #28805)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
We have seen where ABATE had been contacted but it wasa guy who wasn't qualified to speak for ABATE acording to Dave Wendall.
We have seen where The Brothers of the Third wheel were contacted but is was only a couple who had a chapter which is now defunct.
No one ever mentioend why the Sidecar Industry Council was never Contacted even though Lonnie Cook is a member. This seemed odd as the Council's stated mission is directly related to these types of goings on.
See their site at:
http://www.sidecar-industry.com/

The following is an email exchange with Doug Bingham. (Former USCA
President, Owner of Sidestrider, Sidecar builder and dealer and today the
President of the Sidecar Industry Council).
It is followed by a quote by Doug.


To: bingham@sidestrider.com
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: SCT question

Do you have a stance on this? (referring to the recent law in Washington
State of which a copy was attached to the email)
Does the SIC? Please explain to me why I should not think it stinks....
Thanks Doug,
Claude
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
From: Doug Bingham
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: SCT question


Claude ...call ya on this matter...monday...most likey night your time
Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
At this point Doug had called and I missed him but he left a message....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
To: Doug Bingham
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: SCT question


Can I quote your phone message?
OR...Is the S.I.C. willing to make a statement?
Claude
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Bingham
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: SCT question


Claude.. YOU SURE CAN... Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
The following is taken from the phone message left by Doug Bingham
regarding
the recent Washington State Legislation etc. that has been a discussion
here
for a while now:

"We don't agree with that. As a matter of fact those people never even
gave us the common courtesy to let us know what they had in mind. It has
to be obvious to everyone they're selling...making money teaching people how
to drive.
The last thing we need to do is have more laws and regulations. Pretty
soon
they are gonna come and say '"You know what? You people don't know how to
use the bathroom. You will need to take a class to learn that"
too bad the people in Washington are gonna get screwed"
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Joyce
Posted 8/21/2007 7:59 AM (#28808 - in reply to #1998)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 3023
Location: St. Joseph,MO
I think what Mark and others are most concerned with now are ways to change the present. We can point fingers, complain and quote all we want but it is a done deal at this point. How to change that is the question. Something I tell the Board often is that history is not our friend, planning for the future and working in the present is what will make a difference.
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Mark 42
Posted 8/21/2007 11:59 AM (#28815 - in reply to #28805)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
I run a yahoo group and know for a fact that the group owner can set
up whether membership is required for various features & access.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SJ-24
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Mark 42
Posted 8/21/2007 12:07 PM (#28816 - in reply to #28808)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
Originally written by Joyce on 8/21/2007 4:59 AM
I think what Mark and others are most concerned with now are ways to change the present. ...it is a done deal at this point. How to change that is the question.


I think the best change for the future would be to undo what was done
in the recent past. Get rid of the sidecar endorsement altogether.

A warning label would be a better way to make people aware that
a 3-wheel rig doesn't handle the same as a 2-wheel motorcycle.

Let people take the motorcycle endorsement test on any registered motorcycle.

If they want to test on 3 wheels and ride on 2, that is fine.
We are not going to see 100's, 10's, or even handfulls of deaths
that wouldn't have otherwise occurred. If a person is stupid,
a class or a test will not likely fix that, even if it temporarily
delays the inevitable.

Stupid people will make bad decisions even if you try to teach
them not to.

A word to the wise is usually all that's needed, the stupid ones
don't need warning labels... they will just ignore them and get
hurt anyway.

The smart ones will notice the warning label, and will heed it.

Edited by Mark 42 8/21/2007 12:33 PM
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Al Olme
Posted 8/21/2007 4:45 PM (#28822 - in reply to #28815)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes


Posts: 1732
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Mark,Not longh ago Yahoo made some changes in what the group owners and admins can and can't do. You might want to check. As of now, an owner can't set a switch to allow non-members to post. They can set so non-members can read. There are other changes too.
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claude #3563
Posted 8/21/2007 10:01 PM (#28833 - in reply to #28808)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 2471
Location: Middleburg, Pa
Originally written by Joyce on 8/21/2007 7:59 AM

I think what Mark and others are most concerned with now are ways to change the present. We can point fingers, complain and quote all we want but it is a done deal at this point. How to change that is the question. Something I tell the Board often is that history is not our friend, planning for the future and working in the present is what will make a difference.

........................................................................
History IS you friend if you can learn from it. If you ignore it there is much more chance of making the same mistakes over again.

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hatteraswest
Posted 8/22/2007 3:40 PM (#28867 - in reply to #1998)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes


Posts: 2
Location: White Salmon, WA
I had an unscheduled but interesting meeting with a WA State Trooper yesterday morning. Seems I forgot to flip my headlight on (I always turn it off when starting the bike in the AM) and got noticed when he passed me going the other way. I pulled over immediately and had my helmet off by the time he pulled up behind the hack. I told him I knew why he pulled me over and had already addressed the situation. He was friendly, but asked for my license anyway. I handed him my WA State license w/ valid MC endorsement, but NO sidecar stamp. He took a good look at it, called it in, and came back to deliver me a warning about the light and then proceeded to ask me about riding a sidear, etc. There was no mention of my lack of three wheel endorsement whatsoever. Maybe he just overlooked it (Troopers are famous for that, aren't they?), or maybe he saw the MC endorsement and just didn't care to hassle a middle aged rider who obviously had a few miles on his clock (the old Belstaff jacket is a dead giveaway). Regardless of the reason, he just didn't make an issue of it. Maybe I got lucky, maybe the cops think the law is a ridiculous as I do. I thought about asking, but I didn't want to push my luck...
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Mark 42
Posted 8/24/2007 9:59 PM (#28950 - in reply to #28816)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
I AM SO FARGIN ED!!

I HAVE TO GET UP AT 04:30 TOMORROW TO CATCH A FERRY.
IT'LL COST ME ABOUT $14 FOR FARES.

I HAVE TO DRIVE TWO HOURS, MUCH OF IT IN HEAVIER
TRAFFIC THAN I'M USED TO ON UNFAMILIAR ROADS.

THEN I HAVE TO DRIVE THROUGH AN UNFAMILIAR CITY TO
FIND A LOCATION I HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

TO SEE IF I AM SKILLED ENOUGH TO RIDE SAFELY!!

THE GOVERNMENT IS FORCING ME TO TAKE FAR GREATER RISKS THAN
I WOULD IF I WEREN'T BEING FORCED TO TAKE A STUPID ASSED TEST
TO MEET A NEW RIDICULOUS LAW THAT THEY DID NOT PROVIDE ADEQUATE
RESOURCES FOR ME TO COMPLY WITH!!!

IF I GET KILLED DRIVING TO THE TEST MY FAMILY WILL SUE THE
BLOODY HELL OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT, COUNT ON IT!!

They need to offer the test in my area, where I am familiar
with the roads, and the areas, and I can drive to it without
being half asleep when I hit the road.

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Olgraybeard
Posted 8/25/2007 1:06 AM (#28959 - in reply to #1998)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes


Posts: 7
Location: Eatonville, Wa
I wish you luck on your test. I just took the two wheel course/test after 5 years of riding on permits. Out of 10 people in class only 2 passed (I was one of the lucky ones) I was told that they have gotten alot stricter because of all the "high profile" accidents lately. Two of the failers had 1000 miles recient experience.
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Mark 42
Posted 8/25/2007 4:50 PM (#28964 - in reply to #28959)
Subject: RE: Washington State Licensing Changes



Posts: 107
Location: Olalla, WA
I won't restate it here... I started another thread after I posted here
because this thread can be hard to find new posts in. Here's the new one:

http://www.sidecar.com/megabbs/thread-view.asp?threadid=5000&Messag...
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