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To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .
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Posted 2/13/2008 10:25 PM (#33190 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


i had the raked triple trees from liberty installed last may 2007 on my 02 electraglide/98 tle sidecar rig. i can tell you the difference is dramatic. you won't be dissapointed. i paid the $875.00 and i had to pay a shop another $400.00 for the install. i am not a motorcycle mechanic. it was a very expensive "mod" but well worth it. for my 2 wheel jaunts i bought an 06 suzuki hayabusa which i just traded for a new 07 softail standard 2 weeks ago.
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Modelflyered
Posted 2/26/2008 9:45 PM (#33463 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .



Posts: 87
Location: St Chuck IL
Well here we go..it was a beautiful day yesterday here in the land of sky blue waters(even though there still a solid sheet of ice). I rolled the rig out and she fired right up, i guess it did'nt hurt it was 36 degrees out. i got in a 4 mile ride b4 the trailer from my local expensive t- shirt shop showed up. Up into the back she went...on her way for the new triptree from the nice folks at Liberty and figured while thay were at it go ahead and do the lower fork chrome to. I guess it pays to be a nice guy cause they said they would do the tree for the same amout of shop hours as they would charge for just doing the lowers. A deal i couldn't pass up. I will let you all know how it feels when i get her back. Ciao for now. Ed.
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Texan
Posted 2/27/2008 12:29 AM (#33467 - in reply to #33190)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


Originally written by shortcut on 2/13/2008 10:25 PM

i had the raked triple trees from liberty installed last may 2007 on my 02 electraglide/98 tle sidecar rig. i can tell you the difference is dramatic. you won't be dissapointed. i paid the $875.00 and i had to pay a shop another $400.00 for the install. i am not a motorcycle mechanic. it was a very expensive "mod" but well worth it. for my 2 wheel jaunts i bought an 06 suzuki hayabusa which i just traded for a new 07 softail standard 2 weeks ago.

Okay, have a question. Have you ridden your bagger without the sidecar attached?? I also have an '02 FLHTCUI that I use to push around the sidecar but pull the hack off to do a couple (6,000-8,000 mile) trips a year. Have been told with the racked tree riding without the sidecar he bike is VERY "squirrely".

o~\o



Edited by Texan 2/27/2008 12:30 AM
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gnm109
Posted 2/27/2008 2:04 AM (#33472 - in reply to #33467)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .



Posts: 1370
Location: Sacramento County, California
Originally written by Texan on 2/27/2008 2:31 AM

Originally written by shortcut on 2/13/2008 10:25 PM

i had the raked triple trees from liberty installed last may 2007 on my 02 electraglide/98 tle sidecar rig. i can tell you the difference is dramatic. you won't be dissapointed. i paid the $875.00 and i had to pay a shop another $400.00 for the install. i am not a motorcycle mechanic. it was a very expensive "mod" but well worth it. for my 2 wheel jaunts i bought an 06 suzuki hayabusa which i just traded for a new 07 softail standard 2 weeks ago.

Okay, have a question. Have you ridden your bagger without the sidecar attached?? I also have an '02 FLHTCUI that I use to push around the sidecar but pull the hack off to do a couple (6,000-8,000 mile) trips a year. Have been told with the racked tree riding without the sidecar he bike is VERY "squirrely".

o~\o



In such a situation, it would be dangerous. If raked trees are used, the trail is wrong for solo riding on your FL. Here is a quote from a site that speaks about rake and trail in such a situation.

"A word to the wise: If you want to extend your stock Harley's front end by using a set of raked triple trees...DONT! Raked triple trees are really used where the bike has a raked neck of 40 degrees or more. In these cases the raked trees bring the trail back to a shorter, more manageable, distance. Using raked trees on a stock steering stem will shorten the trail too much and lead to instability as the speed increases. Picture a high speed shopping cart. Consider, instead, a set of raked cups that keep the pivot and the fork tubes parallel to each other but "kick out" the front end....or rake your chassis by cutting your neck and positioning it for longer tubes, chopper style."

From http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html

So, if you change to different trees, you should decide in advance that you won't be doing solo anymore.

In my case, while I see the value of changing the trees on a dedicated motorcycle, I can't commit that I will never take the sidecar off for a while. So I make do with the HD steering damper. Nothing's perfect.






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skaeser
Posted 2/27/2008 11:41 AM (#33478 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


Since I can't state that I'll "never" try to use my Ultra solo in the future, I've not pursued raking my front end. But, I wanted to get an idea of how the concept was received and this thread has been enlightening.

At this point the Dealer is waiting on a new, and slightly extended, handlebar for the '08 Model and that should provide a little more leverage in turns. I don't find the stock ride to be too difficult, but it's certainly going to build muscle over time if you drive a lot in a city environment and make a lot of turns.
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Texan
Posted 2/29/2008 11:31 AM (#33514 - in reply to #33472)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


Ya know GNM, I've read this in numerous places, READ, but have never talked to anybody that has ridden solo with a raked tree. AND I understand the geometry behind what you're saying. Now, back a few years I had a chopper that had such a rake on it that it took 2 days to make a turn and I would NEVER ride that bike at highway speeds.

I'm seriously considering buying another touring bike instead of pulling the hack off 2-3 times a year. I know that's quite an investment for a little labor...but am considering the "plus'" of handling by installing a tree. Am going to pull the front legs off this next month to change out the seals and such, so no better time to change out the tree.

o~\o
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gnm109
Posted 2/29/2008 2:29 PM (#33515 - in reply to #33514)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .



Posts: 1370
Location: Sacramento County, California
Originally written by Texan on 2/29/2008 8:31 AM

Ya know GNM, I've read this in numerous places, READ, but have never talked to anybody that has ridden solo with a raked tree. AND I understand the geometry behind what you're saying. Now, back a few years I had a chopper that had such a rake on it that it took 2 days to make a turn and I would NEVER ride that bike at highway speeds.

I'm seriously considering buying another touring bike instead of pulling the hack off 2-3 times a year. I know that's quite an investment for a little labor...but am considering the "plus'" of handling by installing a tree. Am going to pull the front legs off this next month to change out the seals and such, so no better time to change out the tree.

o~\o


It's not unusual for folks to have a separate solo bike around. It sounds like a good idea under the circumstances.
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skaeser
Posted 2/29/2008 3:09 PM (#33516 - in reply to #33478)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


I have just learned that the '08 Ultra, which has the new "fly by wire" throttle, does not have an extended handlebar available for it (yet). Without special notches needed for the new throttle, the handlebar won't work.

There is a "Tall Boy" handlebar that would work, but that's the only one made so far by HD. At this point the Dealer also cannot find any after market bars that would work, so I'll have to wait a year or so I guess.

Steve
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Modelflyered
Posted 3/8/2008 9:39 PM (#33709 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .



Posts: 87
Location: St Chuck IL
skaeser,
Well the rig is done. i just need some warm weather and some rain to wash the salt off the roads. I have to say the trees i got from Liberty in Washington were really NICE!! As someone who worked in a custom steel and aluminum Fab shop the quality and finish were excellent. Well worth the price. Now it's just the typical waiting game on mother nature to see how it affected the steering. Can't wait. Ed
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skaeser
Posted 3/9/2008 10:30 AM (#33719 - in reply to #33709)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


Originally written by Modelflyered on 3/8/2008 9:39 PM

skaeser,
Well the rig is done. i just need some warm weather and some rain to wash the salt off the roads. I have to say the trees i got from Liberty in Washington were really NICE!! As someone who worked in a custom steel and aluminum Fab shop the quality and finish were excellent. Well worth the price. Now it's just the typical waiting game on mother nature to see how it affected the steering. Can't wait. Ed



Sounds great. I'm doing the warm weather dance, myself, and hope to get my rig back from the Dealer soon. They're having problems with the Alarm, following the installation of the sidecar (causing the siren to fail). They've spent hours on the phone with Harley and they finally decided to send another alarm and replace the one I got as defective.

Keep us posted on how the new "Trees" feel.
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gregbenner
Posted 3/9/2008 5:48 PM (#33732 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


Since both of our rigs have had modified rake since new, I didnt have any experince with a non raked rig. However, as noted on another thread, we are currently touring on a rented Yamaha Royal Star rig. Its a very nice unit, but has stock steering. I have so far driven it 2,000+ miles, and realize am not likely to get used to it. Its fine on the open highway, and not too bad in town. However, when to road gets twistie, it gets a bit tiring. For me, the ease of steering is a great improvement in the joy of driving.
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ed carlson
Posted 11/1/2009 9:27 AM (#47176 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: Re: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


Now with the Harley TriGlide they use the increased angeled triple tres and to correct the height they added 1 or 2 inch longer lowers to bring back to a level position, The aftermarket trees are 1050.00 Harley trees are less than 1/2 and from ebay the lowers are being sold as take offs due to people swapping out for chrome, well worth the investment as bones gets weaker sidecars prolong riding for ever
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Jane1450
Posted 2/23/2010 5:16 AM (#49499 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: RE: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


We installed the Tri-Glide trees and I really Luv them. Spousal unit rode the bike a few hundred miles w/o hack and returned a favorable handeling report. Said the steering was quicker but not unsafe/un stable. This is with a car tire on the rear. I understand the aftermarket trees have more rake built in so they may be an entirely different beast... just my .02
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brockoli
Posted 5/1/2010 3:21 AM (#50892 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: Re: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


Posts: 31
Here's some info on steering modifications (modern day, not old school Harley adjustable trees). The Harley car mounts with a 'J' bar. Common knowledge if you're a Harley car owner. There is no suspension on the frame, as such the j-bar handles some of the cars wanting-ness to move around on bumps. This causes the motorcycle to get moved around (side to side, leaning). When you introduce leaning to a modified triple tree with a significant reduction in trail (resulting in less to almost no solo stability) the bike becomes very difficult to ride, almost impossible at high speeds too. The bike will require stock trail, a steering damper is recommended in this case as well. One way to combat some of the bike movement is to install a damper between the the sidecar frame and where the upper strut would be on a conventional rigid sidecar frame. This will take away the the jello feel the rigs tend to have. Just a few tips, I've put quite a few together and it works every time. Remember, this pertains only to the Harley car, where the J-bar is used allowing the bike to move somewhat independantly from the sidecar.
-Brock Smith
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Hack'n
Posted 5/1/2010 12:03 PM (#50899 - in reply to #50892)
Subject: Re: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .



Posts: 4833
Location: Boise, Idaho
I have found that the stock Harley damper is no longer needed with the Harley cars after 5 degree reduced trail forks are installed.
No use to fight stering resistance one doesn't need.

Lonnie


Edited by Hack'n 5/1/2010 2:19 PM
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brockoli
Posted 5/1/2010 12:24 PM (#50900 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: Re: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


Posts: 31
It depends on the amount of trail reduction done, that's why I had mentioned about modern day tree modifications because the older Harley trees didn't have as much reduction as some of today's do. Easier is always better though
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46u
Posted 5/1/2010 4:37 PM (#50912 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: Re: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .



Posts: 801
Location: Macon, Georgia, USA
Being new to sidecars and do not have mine even mounted yet but I called Steerite and talked to the owner for about 1/2 hour. He told me do to Harley having the fork tubes behind the neck he did not recommend raked trees. I forgot what he said the problem was but he said rake trees on a touring Harley creates other problems. I am not trying to start a flame all I am doing is trying to learn.
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Hack'n
Posted 5/1/2010 6:15 PM (#50918 - in reply to #50912)
Subject: Re: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .



Posts: 4833
Location: Boise, Idaho
Harley doesn't recommend sidecars for any other of their bikes except the Electra Glides or FXRP's either since they don't make sidecars for them.
It may be a "If I don't make it I won't recommend" it thing.
I've had raked trees on the later Harleys ElectraGlides and had no problems except very easy and controllable rigs and have a set ordered from Pete Larsen for my latest 2010 FLHX rig.

Lonnie
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46u
Posted 5/1/2010 6:25 PM (#50922 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: Re: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .



Posts: 801
Location: Macon, Georgia, USA
I wish I could remember what the adverse affect was he told me. Who is Pete Larsen? Is he with Liberty? Thanks
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timo482
Posted 5/2/2010 8:49 PM (#50972 - in reply to #50922)
Subject: Re: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .


Posts: 630
Location: Belle Plaine MN
he is the owner of liberty

and hd DOES now make a raked tree assy - its actually fairly cheap

its for the HD trike - just bolts one no mods needed

to
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46u
Posted 5/2/2010 9:17 PM (#50975 - in reply to #33022)
Subject: Re: To Rake, or not to Rake . . . .



Posts: 801
Location: Macon, Georgia, USA
Yes I see his trees. Thanks.
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