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Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.
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scrinch
Posted 5/9/2009 7:54 AM (#43791)
Subject: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Location: mid coast Maine
II hardly ever see a sidecar on the road here in Maine and In my recent trip to TN, NC & VA I saw but one sidecar and it caused me to wonder.

Everywhere I go people express interest in my rig and I certainly am enthusiastic in my testimony about the advantages of the sidecar. Often people say they would rather have a trike because they are safer, ( are they?) or that their wives would not ride in the hack etc etc.. I gather that in the past they were quite popular by the numbers of old photographs around. Sidecar enthusiasts certainly know their great advantages..Are we that ODD?. So why don't more people have rigs?.



Edited by scrinch 5/9/2009 8:06 AM
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gnm109
Posted 5/9/2009 11:44 AM (#43797 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Originally written by scrinch on 5/9/2009 4:54 AM

II hardly ever see a sidecar on the road here in Maine and In my recent trip to TN, NC & VA I saw but one sidecar and it caused me to wonder.

Everywhere I go people express interest in my rig and I certainly am enthusiastic in my testimony about the advantages of the sidecar. Often people say they would rather have a trike because they are safer, ( are they?) or that their wives would not ride in the hack etc etc.. I gather that in the past they were quite popular by the numbers of old photographs around. Sidecar enthusiasts certainly know their great advantages..Are we that ODD?. So why don't more people have rigs?.



One reason that sidecars (and trikes) aren't all that popular is that they slow you down. I say that because whenever I rode with other people in clubs or groups such as HOG, the main body of the group never went anywhere at under 85 mph! That speed is a little tough to maintain in a hack. Personally, I like to go slower and enjoy the scenery. I never have to put a foot down when I stop, either. Ha.

On the good side, I've noticed that a sidecar will generate a bit of interest whenever you show up among other bikers wih one. It usually generates questions such as "How fast will it go? or Does it have a reverse?

Harley-Davidson could sell a lot more of them if they could only do some training for their workers and some additional advertising.

As far as a trike being safer, I dont think so. a sidecar has one side that's harder to turn to (right in the U.S.) but a trike has two bad turns.

It's enough for me to own a sidecar rig and enjoy it. It is my little secret. LOL.


Edited by gnm109 5/9/2009 11:46 AM
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Hack'n
Posted 5/9/2009 12:06 PM (#43798 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Location: Boise, Idaho
Sidecar popularity started dwindling with the production of the Model T.
The four wheel Fords were cheaper, more stable, provided protection from the elements, hauled more stuff and passengers.
Due to fuel prices and congestion most other countries are motorcycle friendly. Not so here.
Today's US driver demands lots of cup holders, complex audio systems, automatic everything, dropdown TVs, runflat tires, cameras and voices telling them everything that is going on in and outside of the vehicle, automatic parking assists and all the instant gratification leisure "do nothing yourself" accessories so important to the "All about me" generation. A sidehack is "Just too much work".
The spirit of adventure seems limited to video games like "Car Theft 5" and "Mega war". A virtual life, as it were.

Lonnie
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Hank41
Posted 5/9/2009 5:57 PM (#43803 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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i think i like it the way it is we talked about this in an earlier thread, if outfits got popular they'd get sanitized like the car has & that for me at least would take away most of the enjoyment. also we dont want some government body getting interested or they will have them banned on health & safety grounds. Hank
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bluehdmc
Posted 5/9/2009 9:13 PM (#43804 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.


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I like having something a little different. I get the reverse question. A lot of people don't understand them, don't like the idea of not having anything but a windshield in front of them. Then I get the "Keystone Kops" question, (I make a left turn and sidecar goes right)
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punkozuna
Posted 5/10/2009 1:54 AM (#43806 - in reply to #43804)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.


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Originally written by bluehdmc on 5/9/2009 9:13 PM

I like having something a little different.


I gotta agree with you there. I've lived to see a few things I liked go from obscure/oddball to trendy and something fun and cool was lost along the way.

I've seen sportbikes (and club level roadracing) go from fun things that a few enthusiastic, rugged individual, mildly eccentric types enjoyed to something that costs a lot, is full of poseurs and kids that think that they'll be the next GP star. It used to be fun to walk down pit row, check out the bikes and talk to kindred souls.

Motorcycle riding in general went from an enthusiasts pastime in the mid 80s when I started to the every-fat-dentist-rebel with a Harley, fresh tattoo and a doo-rag thing it is today. (no offense intended to dentists and I'm fat enough to get away with calling other people fat).

Ditto with motor scooters.

Be glad that sidecars are passe and that you are smart/lucky enough to enjoy them and the company of your "fellow travelers". Hope it doesn't change.
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papasmurf
Posted 5/10/2009 6:41 AM (#43807 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.


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HI STALWART SIDECAR FOLK:
Old geezer; on 'em 40+ yrs. Ride present rig with the wife a LOT more, as it's best/most comfortable rig of the 4 we've owned.
Get LOTS of smiles and questions from adults and KIDS, everywhere we go. COOLEST rides, is when our club[NE 3 Wheelers of western MA - 50 members]is on a group ride! 8 to 12[average]sidecar rigs are a SIGHT to see! Of course, youngest member of club's in late 40's. No-one younger has joined recently and the rest of us ain't gettin' any younger[oldest members in 80s]. We accept ANY 3-wheelers[trikes/newer 2F1Rs]but don't stir any interest from them[they tend to ride lone-wolf or join clubs exclusive to their chosen steeds].
We MAY be a dyin' breed but when we get together, it's always FUN with lots of comraderie, good stories, laughs around our traditional event campfires. We always help each other with parts/accessories searches & tech tips sharing. And I also LOVE keepin' my feet on pegs at stoplights, LOL! TTFN & RIDE SAFE.....Old Tom aka papasmurf in southern NH
P.S. In March/April '08, we went to Germany on 3 1/2-week trip, to visit our daughter and son-in-law[he's in US Army there]. During all the daily rides we went on in their car, I only saw ONE sidecar rig and it was a 250 cc dirt bike! Was SHOCKED, but it may have been the early spring weather and area we were in. Did see MANY, MANY solos, including a beautiful, restored VINCENT on the road in Holland!

Edited by papasmurf 5/10/2009 6:52 AM
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david lloyd
Posted 5/10/2009 7:04 AM (#43808 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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I still can't figure out why I bought a rig several years ago. To me its like, "why did I chose those lottery numbers?" It's the best choice I ever made! Love riding my rig. love working on my rig. Were I rich, I would have 3! 1 really hot [amazing bike and 30 000 hack], 1 Ural Gear-up with winter tires just for the winter months, and a rig that was a set-up intended to make people laugh. Like maybe the sidecar would be a hot-dog or a bath tub. I would sell my car and bike before I would sell my rig.
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scrinch
Posted 5/10/2009 9:02 AM (#43811 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Location: mid coast Maine
Well for me it was a no brainer...The wife and the dog wouldn't ride my 2 wheeler...so we got a sidecar rig. Now I am working on ther second rig and no 2 wheelers in sight. Just wish there were a few people to ride with now and then. Like it was said most 2 wheelers go way too fast to keep up with especially in tight turns. Unfortunatly westernn MA is about 6 hours from here.
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SwampFox
Posted 5/10/2009 9:18 AM (#43812 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Seems most folks consider a sidecar rig a expensive novelty. Many motorcyclists have commented they would likely purchase a 2nd bike for similar money as new sidecar. And some consider them too slow: Younger fellas prefer go-fast bikes, unless they are family folks with a double sidecar. Also, I'm a member of the local BMW club (altho no BMW for some time now), but have only tried one ride with the group, and, like the HD group, I was left behind within the first mile even tho we discussed I prefer to limit my sped to 60mph or so.

I'm in the group that likes being a little different; always have been for that matter. Children & my dog love it (Maddie as a puppy was the catalyst for the 1st sidecar). And I enjoy my sidecaring friends.
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SidecarMike
Posted 5/10/2009 10:56 AM (#43815 - in reply to #43812)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Although nothing compared to two wheelers, we have quite a few in northern Wisconsin. I live on a lake with about 25 miles of shoreline. I know of 5 sidecars on the lake. My Guzzi, a Virago, a Ural, and two Harleys. I know of at least five others within ten miles of my house. Of these ten bikes, two of them seldom leave the garage, and one guy has two, but that's 7 riding rigs in a twenty mile circle.
I agree, it's nice sometimes to have something different but it's also fun to get together with like minded friends.
I've never had anyone complain that I held back the pack, but then I tend to ride more aggressively than most sidecarists I know. Personally, I find group riding to be over-rated so I seldom go out with more than one or two others.
I've been riding on two wheels for 44 years now and on three for about 30 years. When my son got old enough to want to run with friends or ride his own bike, I sold the sidecar and went back to a Goldwing and a Harley sans sidecars. In two years I put on less than 300 miles per bike. I decided I was done with motorcycles and sold both. Three or four years later, I stumbled across Sheldon Aubut's sidecar diary. http://www.sheldonaubut.com/bikes/sportsman/sheldon.htm
That's when I realized why I quit riding. Two wheels are boring! I've had 4 different rigs since 2002 and now believe I will be riding the rest of my life. I even do two wheels occasionally. I have a friend rebuiding a 2002 RoadKing right now that I will probably end up with but will never put a sidecar on. Just the same, I probably won't put many miles on it either.
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david lloyd
Posted 5/10/2009 4:56 PM (#43818 - in reply to #43811)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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I am 5 hours from Maine, but i may pass your way en route to a rally in PEI this summer. if so, I will let you know. Are you going to Americaide this June?
Originally written by scrinch on 5/10/2009 9:02 AM

Well for me it was a no brainer...The wife and the dog wouldn't ride my 2 wheeler...so we got a sidecar rig. Now I am working on ther second rig and no 2 wheelers in sight. Just wish there were a few people to ride with now and then. Like it was said most 2 wheelers go way too fast to keep up with especially in tight turns. Unfortunatly westernn MA is about 6 hours from here.
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crawf
Posted 5/10/2009 6:55 PM (#43819 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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there is a few hacks within the Niagara area here,..I've nodded to a few, and had coffee with a couple others...my friends and club members all know that after several years of hot-lapping sport bikes , broken limbs, fantastic speeding tickets and freeway wheelies it was time to slow down or die,..I scored a professional job of escorting funerals and weddings on motorcycle, after the police training, they secured a hack for bad, off season weather...I was hooked,..as a vintage bike enthusiast,..when my daughter arrived a few years later, a sidecar was the answer to avoid the mini-van dulldrums in the summer. people passing looking at my daughter, watching the video player under the convert top are always thumbs up with envy,..and she's the coolest kid at school,..in 15 min I can drop the car, and mommy and I can burn up the pegs,..it's the best of both worlds, people ask when solo what the eye bolt studs are for...they always smile when I tell them it's for my daughter's sidecar mounts...cheers crawf.
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scrinch
Posted 5/10/2009 8:30 PM (#43822 - in reply to #43818)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Location: mid coast Maine
Originally written by david lloyd on 5/10/2009 4:56 PM

I am 5 hours from Maine, but i may pass your way en route to a rally in PEI this summer. if so, I will let you know. Are you going to Americaide this June?


We sell my work at Art Shows and fairs throughout the summer and those always take place on the weekends.....same as most motorcycle events. We may make it to Laconia for a day or two as that is only about 3.5 hrs from here and runs all week. Both Lake George and PEI are a fair piece from here.

Do drop by if you come this way....we can always take a day to ride and show you the sites. Are in in Quebec City? That is a place the wife and I want to go. Just working all summer has it's drawbacks. Winter in Quebec is beautiful I am sure, but I am more for warmer weather than colder weather than Maine in the winter.
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SaskMick
Posted 5/10/2009 11:33 PM (#43838 - in reply to #43803)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.


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Originally written by Hank41 on 5/9/2009 5:57 PM
also we dont want some government body getting interested or they will have them banned on health & safety grounds. Hank


I think a government body would have a hard time getting them banned. A long time ago and when I lived in the UK,I read a goverment paper on which vehicles were the safest. Motorcycle combinations were statistically the safest vehicles on the road.

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Pat Huey
Posted 5/11/2009 7:48 AM (#43849 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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There used to be a statistic (have no idea now where I read it though) that claimed that sidecars made up about 2% of all motorcycles on the road. A true niche market for such, I suspect. I imagine that installers probably figure in there as well, so the market for sidecars to begin with is very, very small. Even for dedicated sidecar rigs such as the Urals, the dealership network is so very poor that seeing one or two privately owned ones in a state is probably more the norm than seeing several on the road. The biggest conglomeration of sidecars is always at a rally where there was a confirmed effort to bring them out. Small numbers produced to begin with, so it appears logical that there would be small numbers on the roads for the most part, as well.

Just like a motorcycle, they too require suiting up in special gear for the most part. Much easier to hop in a car than suit up for every ride, but what a difference though. The present youth generation is not inclined to sink a goodly sum of money into somehting that is more popular with Pop or Grandpa. Most rigs are a significant chunk of change to shell out for these days, as well. There are several options available that cost less or at least cost about the same. Many of those options have more go power, as well as other amenities.

I believe the sidecar will never see the popularity of the more common motorcycle, ATV or even rides such as the Spyder or crotch rockets. It is just too quaint and will remain a pure niche market for quite some time. Nothing wrong in that, as it adds a bit of uniqueness to them and makes them something to always be a great conversation starter. As the youth of today steadfastly age (everyone does, you know), the sidecar rig may well come back in as a viable motor vehicle, but I am a bit doubtful. Reason being, EPA and other government agencies know how to ruin more than they ever help, technology may well change the power plants of all vehicles, the image of hacks will always be something that Grandpa enjoyed and not youth oriented and probably a whole host of other reasons not even factored in.

Me, I enjoy it all while I can. It is a nice ride for me and something different than the typical ride everyone else is on. No need for speed, as I can't enjoy viewing the flowers along the highways when I do over 70mph. There is a certain nostalgia that comes as a freeby with a sidecar rig, so I guess that is a selling point that most overlook. Not me though, as I enjoy the looks, the feel and the ride. My dogs enjoy it more than a car ride, so it works well in fulfiling my needs.

Knowing some other older Uralists and sidecarists in my area, I find that most of them do not travel more than a few miles around their own neighborhood. YOu may see them on the road near their homes, but you are not likely to see them on the super slabs or even headed across the country. Some just like their machines for nice little trips around the neighborhood. Nothing wrong with that, as each person has their own travel desires with a sidecar rig. My dogs and I travel around the neighborhood almost as much as we do traveling locally to other towns and such. You would likely see most of these folk at a car/motorcycle show well before you saw them traveling to a camp out or hitting the roads for a weekend of Iron Butt-type of travel.

The above is just my take on the oddities of owning a rig and the reason so few are seen, outside of rallys.
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Hank41
Posted 5/11/2009 8:26 AM (#43855 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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how do you get around this one? a guy i know who lives in the same village as me gave up riding a bike end of last summer, he said he was getting to old for it he's only a couple of years older than me, so i said why dont you get an outfit?. he just looked at me as if i were stupid & said what for iv'e already got a car.Hank
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SidecarMike
Posted 5/11/2009 8:49 AM (#43858 - in reply to #43855)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Originally written by Hank41 on 5/11/2009 6:26 AM

how do you get around this one? a guy i know who lives in the same village as me gave up riding a bike end of last summer, he said he was getting to old for it he's only a couple of years older than me, so i said why dont you get an outfit?. he just looked at me as if i were stupid & said what for iv'e already got a car.Hank


This is where you use the old Land Rover adage, (copied by the current generation of HD riders). "If I have to explain it, you probably wouldn't understand." How many times haven't you heard a sidecarist say,"if I had known it was going to be like this, I would have done it thirty years ago?" I repeat that line to anyone who questions my riding choice. Then I let them take the rig for a short ride with me in the sidecar. I have a 28 year old acquaintence who is now building a bike with intentions of mounting a sidecar.
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crawf
Posted 5/11/2009 8:52 AM (#43859 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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..motorcycles and riding are a diverse freedom,..a custom bike, a classic vintage or totally unique ride is individual to us as the rider,..the sidecarist is the " distinct society" all on it's own,..just like there is motorcycle racers,...then there is speedway racers with no gears or brakes, all horsepower and slides..just gonads and skill to guide them through ... a distinct group unique unto themselves,..and I love it. crawf.

Edited by crawf 5/11/2009 8:56 AM
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geek_law
Posted 5/11/2009 3:09 PM (#43875 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Location: Cornelius, Oregon (near Portland)
For those of you worried that a sidecar hack cannot keep up with the pack, I would highly recommend getting a supercharged Triumph Rocket!

I have no problems keeping up, despite my massive 250-lb Hannigan Double seater "Bandito."

My biggest issue is keeping the front wheel down under hard accel. Need to get some big weights on the front shocks or something along those lines.

I personally think the biggest reasons we don't see more sidecars is the cost of getting a new hack. Many of you can cobble an old unit together and make it look and work great, but for use "average folk," a turn key solution is best. I got a full solution from Hannigan, but it cost me a bloody mint and still took a good bit of wrenching and engineering to get everything working just right. I'm into my sidecar far more than a new fun motorcycle. It was tough to justify, but its been worth it to be able to haul the kiddies around.

Just my two cents.
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Jim Van der Veen
Posted 5/11/2009 4:03 PM (#43878 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.


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I agree with all of the above. I have two other hackers in the neighborhood, one is down with clutch problems and the other doesn't get ridden much. We have 62K on our 4 year old hack, and still try to take it to NC, VA or TN twice a year. Ridding down in South Florida in the summer is not much fun, but if you keep moving, it is ok. I ride year round, when possible, but we really pile up the miles in the winter and spring. The hacks are out there, you just need to know where to look.

Uber
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Hank41
Posted 5/11/2009 5:31 PM (#43886 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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i will say no more on this thread we all drive sidecar for whatever reasons. some because of choice some cos there aint no choice but what i will say is this driving a sidecar is the most unusual experience a person can have & i have been at this for a lot of years & it has given me more pleasure than anything else i hope i can continiue to enjoy it for many more years. Hank
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david lloyd
Posted 5/12/2009 6:33 AM (#43894 - in reply to #43886)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Location: Lachine, QC-CANADA, EH!
I agree!
Originally written by Hank41 on 5/11/2009 5:31 PM

i will say no more on this thread we all drive sidecar for whatever reasons. some because of choice some cos there aint no choice but what i will say is this driving a sidecar is the most unusual experience a person can have & i have been at this for a lot of years & it has given me more pleasure than anything else i hope i can continiue to enjoy it for many more years. Hank
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crawf
Posted 5/12/2009 7:07 AM (#43895 - in reply to #43791)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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I had to replace my clutch this season also...$75.00 and 45 minutes,...cheap maintenance in my books after 3 hack seasons of abuse,..crawf
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SidecarMike
Posted 5/12/2009 9:49 AM (#43900 - in reply to #43878)
Subject: RE: Where have all the sidecars gone, long time passing.



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Originally written by Jim Van der Veen on 5/11/2009 2:03 PM

The hacks are out there, you just need to know where to look.

Uber

This is true. Yesterday I rode to Minneapolis to pick up a part for my trailer. When I got there, a young man helped carry things out to the sidecar, then started telling me his parents were wanting to put one on a Goldwing but didn't know where to start. I gave him a list of websites and installers and invited them to the upcoming Skunks in the Woods Rally.
Next stop was a gas station. While filling the bike, a 30 something couple came up to tell me they had purchased a sidecar for her Sportster and were having it mounted by a local shop.
Third stop of the day was to see an old friend at the Sheriff's Dept. In the course of our conversation, he told me he bought a new Velorex in the middle 70's with intentions of mounting it to an old Moto Guzzi he was going to restore. The restoration never happened and the thirty year old sidecar is still in it's shipping crate. He has asked me to sell the sidecar for him. I'll post it here when I get photos and details.
Long story short; I made 4 stops yesterday. Three of them turned in to sidecar related stops.
The moral of the story is that the more you ride yours, the more you will encourage others to ride.

Edited by SidecarMike 5/12/2009 9:52 AM
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