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Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike
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c64club
Posted 8/18/2011 2:36 PM (#59821 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Location: Katowice, Silesia, Poland
I have thought about making both rear drums puled by flexible cable and the latest idea was mixing bar pull and cable pull using kind of "balancer". If it does a matter that much, I can mount cable to both swingarms using mounts dedicated for Junak or other heavier motorcycle popular in Poland. Thanks for writing about your experience.

Now everything is ready for painting and for making a subframe and sidecar.

Edit (after some thinking): What if sidecar's brake is weaker than motorcycle's rear brake? Isn't it better than sidecar without brake? Instead of balancing both brakes (rear and side) I would simply get the side brake weaker. My sicecar will have wheel from WSK that has weaker brake than my bike's rear one. Is it a big problem?

Edited by c64club 8/19/2011 9:53 AM
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Peter Pan
Posted 8/19/2011 5:33 PM (#59836 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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A weak sidecar break is much safer then a grippy one.
In order to get less force on the sidecar break the Jawa has the hook for the sidecar break lower on the pedal lever.
I will try to make some photos.
Anyhow later depending on the load you readjust frequently on the road!

Worst thing I had to hastle with, was that the agency had looped once the sidecar break's cable wrong and in each strong left bend suddenly the sidecar breaked of its own just because of the force diving in the sidecar wheel.
I tell you that gives you sudden adrenaline rises!!!!
Sven
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Peter Pan
Posted 8/19/2011 5:41 PM (#59837 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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http://sidecar.com/mbbs22/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5387&posts=16&...
http://adventuresidecar.com/hackdchains.htm
so far for the chains. I myself more then once was allready happy with just plain rope wraped arround the back tire.
But you need space betweeen swing chain and tire.
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c64club
Posted 8/21/2011 7:47 AM (#59848 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Location: Katowice, Silesia, Poland
Since friday I have a source for 0.2" thick steel ropes :D Some company in my neighbourhood produces and services thunder grounding systems. They always throw out short fragments of roped removed from clients' installatons ("short" for them means 2 meters or so). But they can give ropes to me as I want, it doesn't matter for them where used ropes go.

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c64club
Posted 11/4/2011 3:54 AM (#61321 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: RE: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Location: Katowice, Silesia, Poland

It took long time but I had to do many things more important than building a sidecar.

Finally I did my own sidecar :D It runs, can carry some loads and is ready for cosmetic finishing.

http://grzegorski.net/wiki/doku.php?id=en:moto:sidecar_k125&#building_a_sidehack (some photos still sit in my camera's memory card)

Today i mounted it to bike, did some offroad (veeery weak road) tests and made some photos. Tomorrow I will borrow a card reader and post these pics. At the time only mechanical side is ready. Todo: mudguard, painting, some floor/pane. Lights are ready, I will put cables after painting. The last mod will be a sidewheel brake puller and pedal, as soon as my local motorcycle part seller gets proper pulling cable.

Rig runs properly on bumpy road, can do tight left turns. Didn't test it on asphalt yet. With few motorcycle wheels as a ballast I colud drive without "ejecting" effect on every bump that sidewheel meets. After few regulations I have ideal toe-in, lean-out and shock absorbers position. Eventually I will make slightly smaller lead-in (now is 200mm with 1290mm wheelbase).

Few days ago I got wheel, taillight and turn lights from identical bike like mine (engine has died), so whole rig can look as it be original "Romet sidecar" for Romet K125.

HAPPY like a child with 6-pound chocolate :D

.


And homemade displays panel:


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SwampFox
Posted 11/4/2011 8:02 AM (#61322 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Good to see your outfit roadworthy (well, hauling "junk" anyway). Please post more photos as you continue the project.
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c64club
Posted 11/4/2011 8:31 AM (#61324 - in reply to #61322)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Location: Katowice, Silesia, Poland
SwampFox - 11/3/2011 2:02 PM
(well, hauling "junk" anyway)

Well, it's made partially from junk. And with third wheel it's still my ratbike, so it will continue its rat life, although with any required conservations etc.
Now I have to scratch some fresh "rusty color" from subframe and sidecar's frame and paint it to give it less junk-like look.


Edited by c64club 11/4/2011 9:42 AM
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SwampFox
Posted 11/4/2011 8:46 AM (#61325 - in reply to #61324)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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c64club - 11/4/2011 8:31 AM
...Well, it's made partially from junk....


My "junk" reference was to the fellow commenting your hauling scrap metal in/on your sidecar.
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Peter Pan
Posted 11/4/2011 10:37 AM (#61330 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Location: San Isidro de Heredia, Costa Rica
Igor,
may I suggest that You reinforce the sidecars standing shock frame.

When you paint rat style put something on top of the primer.
As of own experience a nicely rounded tank which I did not paint the final coat for 1 year because I was too occupied in riding. was absorbing water and all the hours of work for to fill up the ugly bumps became useless.
Nice long lasting rat paint became later "Hammerschlag" toolbox paint (hammer finish paint, / if I remember right its 2 component / you just brush it on and it cripples itsself, / smells awfull a few weeks, but no way that salt will damage it in winter.)

Very interesting rev meter you build, congratulations
Sven

Edited by Peter Pan 11/4/2011 10:40 AM
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c64club
Posted 11/4/2011 5:27 PM (#61344 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Location: Katowice, Silesia, Poland
Sven, I'm not a friend of styling a bike to make it "ratty". Ratbike is a bike that lives and changes with its owner, taking minimal effort to keep it healthy, without caring about aesthetic. And that's my Romet exactly
Hammer effect lack - I didn't know that it's so solid. I will paint whole construction with two layers of anti-corrosion base, then with some "color", may it be hammer-effect lack.

Could you say more about reinforcements you suggest? Weld-on some additional struts/guests in construction? I will be thankful if you open one of my pictures in paint and draw your suggestions with lines.

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Peter Pan
Posted 11/4/2011 6:00 PM (#61347 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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I never did styling on any car or bike, they just grew with me....although now with officially 48 years I seem to be a kid still.
What I allways did was keeping the technics running like new. (bearings, breaks, stearing head, ignition, carbs....)
The scratches and dirt served very well in the last 30 years as theft inssurance....
The only motorcycle that got stolen from me, was the one of a client (Church missionary) just after having finished a frame reinforcement for luggage boxes. Imagine the paint was still wet and my truck simply did not want to start at all that day in 1994. (I had to give my bike as recompensation and staid 10 1/2 years without motorcycle, because a Vespa will never be a bike (but earned my respect))

Lets see if the sketch goes out.
it seemed to come out, but you have to download it for to watch well.

Sven

Edited by Peter Pan 11/4/2011 6:15 PM




(Igor.bmp)



Attachments
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Attachments Igor.bmp (3600KB - 5 downloads)
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c64club
Posted 11/5/2011 8:59 AM (#61357 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Sven, thanks for reply, especially for the drawing. I see that we treat motorcycles similarily
Without anti-sway bar whole rig tries to eject me to the left from seat every time I reach a bump on the road with sidecar's wheel. But it may take some time before I install sway bar. Now I try to finish whole construction because winter comes in big steps, and my workshop is almost unusable when outside temp reaches -5*C or colder.

That tube, you marked ona a photo isn't original. It's my reinforcement to bike's frame. Here you have photos and description:
http://grzegorski.net/wiki/doku.php?id=en:moto:k125-rama

I made this second reinforcement to standing shock frame this morning. Now I have to weld-on these squares at end of each tube.



Edited by c64club 11/6/2011 12:08 PM
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Peter Pan
Posted 11/5/2011 3:45 PM (#61358 - in reply to #61357)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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I can feel with you I am direct from the border West/east germany baltic see andf my work shop for years was the oil cellar. 15`C in summer and -4`C in winter....Brrrrr.
Right now I have the opposite. The worst part of the rainy season finished monday and we have a few days transition calm until the storms from north east will start with horizontal rain. Its marvelous weather and hundreds of parrotts make a feast with the crop and fruit trees in the neighbourhood.

The tube caps are intented just for to give some more strenght to the shock frame. In my eyes the angle Shocks/swing is a little low and might be part of the "ejecting action".

Remember tubes rust more from inside then outside!!!!!
So its a good practice to paint inside or better use "Hohlraumversiegelung" / "inner space sealant" a kind of asfalt or recine you normally cure the inside of car bodies with before winter... For to protect the crome from salt I used asfalt paint or a thick wax coat that you could wash off with gasoline in spring.(burn it afterwards, don't spill it)

Excellent accesories for winter were> My spare wheel in winter had trial blocks and spikes which I got in Norway winter 86. / Cutchers blanket made out of felt and soft vinyl over the tank and reaching up to the chest./ heated grips and "Lenkerstulpen"- covers over the handles. / the swedisch sheep skin trouthers (from 1942) you find perhaps still in army shops. / Boots with foam filling.
And my prefered change on the sidecar was a deflecting sheet metal that prevented the snow from hitting the sidecar frame, but would lift the sidecar. => specially usefull when a truck looses a chunk of snow ice and by the way the adrenaline shock rises the body temperature.... you don't make aright turn and flip over on the instant!

Lunch is waiting. I wish you a happy welding time.
But before an important hint. The ejecting action of the sidecar swing is best limited by the sway bar = like the suspension of old VW Beadles or the Superelastic sidecar from MZ. But as short term work arround you can mount 2 rubber blocks as final stop below the s/c swing so the swing has a limited outward travel.

God Bless you and don't hastle with German custoum officers like I did on 5.Jan.1987 in Kiel harbour... he made me buy a new back tire and pull out all the beautyfull spikes in the front tire....
Sven

Edited by Peter Pan 11/5/2011 3:50 PM
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c64club
Posted 11/6/2011 1:36 PM (#61375 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Location: Katowice, Silesia, Poland
I have just returned form workshop. Did some reinforcemens and painted everything wih 2 plies of anti-corrosion paint. Since last year I use asphalt-spray intended to protect car's closed profiles from rust. It has long (~20") and elastic pipe with special header at the end, so it covers everything inside tube with "asphalt" very precisely. I also use this spray or standard car protecting paint intended to use with brush, to cover swingarms, center stand and lower parts of frame. Works good.
I have big chance to finish whole construction before winter comes. To do: finish paintings, wait some time, mount lights, mount everything together And then install anti-sway bar, if weather will allow working in my workshop.

Sven, I'm not planning to use spikes etc. I have free access to thin steel ropes from unmounted anti-thunder installations, should work similarily to snow chains.
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Peter Pan
Posted 11/6/2011 11:04 PM (#61385 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Well done these cains work great but they tighten very hard by use so a openimg device is usefull.
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c64club
Posted 1/26/2012 3:52 AM (#62654 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Location: Katowice, Silesia, Poland
Some update after 1000 miles.
My rig works perfectly, although with this small displacement engine it can reach about 40 mph in really good conditions. I used Heidenau winter tires. K41 3.00-18 Silica on front wheel and K66 90/80-16 SnowTex on rear wheel. It was stupid, because rear tire should be more wear-proof than delicate Snowtex one. But works. 800 miles since i mounted winter tires, the rear one lost about 0,6mm of thread. Tried to change setup - no effect. Simply - rear tire should be much stronger, even for such small rig. The next one will be Heidenau K41 3.25-16".

Hardest works that my rig did:
-75 kg of chicken food in normal (non-mountain) conditions
-few >7ft long steel beams on the same route
-regular transports of coal/wood for my fireplace
-two persons, our luggage, 7% steep hill and 3" of compacted snow - done perfectly.

Yes, I know that passenger should rather sit in sidecar. But with big luggage, whole rig is very stable, additionally I instruct passengers to lean right in right-handers.

Edited by c64club 1/26/2012 5:01 AM




(zima.jpg)



(motor_07.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments zima.jpg (107KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments motor_07.jpg (97KB - 0 downloads)
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Peter Pan
Posted 1/26/2012 9:36 AM (#62659 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Igor congratulations for your fine winter ride.
In winter is where you start to appreciate the rig more then in summer. You notice inmediately when the ground traction gets lost and have still time to correct and adjust and if things become strange you still have a lot of options by wheight shifting and drifting.... I loved riding in the snow. but for now our Summer is at its best... (no Rain since Chrismas and 20-28°C)
Enjoy
Sven
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c64club
Posted 1/26/2012 10:54 AM (#62661 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Location: Katowice, Silesia, Poland
Real (snowy) winter become just 3 weeks ago. Sooner there were rains and sometimes ice, when temperatures reached 0°C or less. So I had chance to practice riding in almost all bad/wet/slippery/ice/snow conditions. Also tried offroad/mud riding, just for practice. And in winter I have practiced on big empty parkplace (not so empty, it was full of snow). Some drifts, 8-shaped tracks, braking experiments. With 20 kgs of luggage. We also tried such test - me in sidecar and my passenger tried to drive a rig first time in her life, starting from center of parkplace and trying to do 8-shaped track.
In really deep snow, on compacted snow, I could trigger some traction loses, but it's somewhat simple to regain traction. K41 Silica M+S as front tire is wonderful.

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Peter Pan
Posted 1/26/2012 11:12 AM (#62662 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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For ballast when riding alone I made the same beginner error. And on my first day I landed 3 times on 140km in the pasture... => better go with more weight in the sidecar. half a persons weight is what I use after many years of riding for a beginner is better more a least 35-45kg.
Winter riding is the best training for sidecars. At the end of the winter you will have develloped the felling in the four letter sensor!!! Which pure summer riders will never devellop.
Take care for freezing toes,knees, knuckles, throat and nose.
The occasion I got frozen to my fishing pole at -20°C my knuckles didn't want to heal for 3 month (the zinc cream sucks). The only thing that really helped was the reciepe from my Grandmother from Tilsit/Koenigsberg.
Wash your hands 3 times a day in lamp petroleum / cerrosene. => in 2 weeks the cracked skin and the swolen knuckles became well again.

Best luck and have fun
Sven


Edited by Peter Pan 1/26/2012 11:13 AM
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Hack'n
Posted 1/26/2012 11:50 AM (#62663 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Igor,
I'm happy to see that you finally got your rig into the wind (snow). That first successful run makes all the midnight oil burning in the past months worthwhile, doesn't it?

Good on you,

Lonnie

Edited by Hack'n 1/26/2012 11:52 AM
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c64club
Posted 1/26/2012 1:30 PM (#62667 - in reply to #58871)
Subject: Re: Lightweight sidecar for 125cc bike



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Np, Peter Pan, I didn't make "too light" error. Instructing the passenger to lean right is somewhat redundant, but I'd rather like to exaggerate than to flip left I always ride with ~30 kilograms in basket. When I plan to return with heavy load, I take 25 liters of water from lake and ditch it before loading.

I always drive in full apparel. It consists of warm pants and blouse/sweater, then goes "buzzer", 2 small polartec "blankets" under knee&sinbone protectors. I have sewn additional windstopper "gloves" and I wear full wind-stopper jacket and pants as outside layer.For winter I use rubber boots with 2 pairs of woolen socks. Every joints are warm after ride.

Yes, Lonnie. I felt that all this work is worthwhile. I ride my rig about 13-15 weeks now. Sorry that I haven't posted pics, but I had to test and finish everything.
I also care second helmet, gloves, knee- and elbow protectors and I take hitch-hikers, not everybody are that "brave" to go with me. But if someone decide to take a ride, is then very happy. Last time some guy said "I always though that motorcyclists are Kamikaze, and that motorcycles are summer-only vechicles. But it's really good"
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