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New kid on the block
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Txart
Posted 11/6/2011 12:21 PM (#61371 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 145
Location: Brazoria, tx
Actually the installation has not been completed --- we are waiting on a banjo bolt with which to tie in the brakes and also waiting on a steering damper --- I rode it at Texas sidecar and the woobles were bad --- Bob at TSC said they were minor and fixable with a damper --- he rode it up to 80 - he is nuts too!

anyways, as soon as we have brakes and a damper installed we will start riding as time permits ----- When I rode it at TSC, I met an 18 wheeler on the narrow road -- it was sacry as hell knowing you can NOT move over in your lane to avoid the blast. The rig is about 78 inches wide - about the same as my Dodge 3/4 ton pickup

Edited by Txart 11/6/2011 12:25 PM
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SwampFox
Posted 11/6/2011 1:32 PM (#61374 - in reply to #61371)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 1662
Location: Summer Grove, LA USA

Txart - 11/6/2011 12:21 PM

Actually the installation has not been complete ... Bob at TSC ... rode it up to 80 - he is nuts too!

Well, maybe more experienced than nuts.  Bob's just working to get it aligned.  Wind drag has lots of impact on drivablility as speed increases over 60mph, even more so with the wide sidecars with large frontal area.

... I met an 18 wheeler on the narrow road -- it was sacry as hell knowing you can NOT move over in your lane to avoid the blast....

Yep, that was a BIG adjustment for me, as I tend to use the entire lane when on the 2-wheeler.

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Hack'n
Posted 11/6/2011 3:02 PM (#61377 - in reply to #61371)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 4833
Location: Boise, Idaho
Just pretend you are still driving the Dodge pickup and keep the bike wheels in the left wagon track. You'll be fine and won't knock down any mailboxes. Remember to squint when the truck blast hits you.

Lonnie
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Txart
Posted 11/6/2011 5:09 PM (#61380 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 145
Location: Brazoria, tx

I'll remember the squint.......for my training, maybe I should have gotten one of those German rigs - you know the ones that have the machine mount on them

Edited by Txart 11/6/2011 5:11 PM
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Txart
Posted 11/7/2011 9:07 PM (#61391 - in reply to #61380)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 145
Location: Brazoria, tx
Making progress --- the steering damper came in this afternoon and I was able to install it -- was surprised --- will get up a crack of dawn, check out the installation, get the rig off the trailer and take it for a test run ----- if not it does work, we'll go to Plan B, the VW Damper
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Txart
Posted 11/8/2011 8:58 PM (#61403 - in reply to #61391)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 145
Location: Brazoria, tx
The damper did its job -- tested the rig by driving around the block, then went out for an 80 mile drive. Kind of getting used to the pulling and pushing and the quick left - right jerk I get on the gear shifts. Sure is nice not putting down a foot at the stop light. It did turn heads!!!!!

Edited by Txart 11/8/2011 9:02 PM




(Hack 5.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Hack 5.jpg (96KB - 3 downloads)
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Txart
Posted 2/20/2012 12:44 AM (#63202 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 145
Location: Brazoria, tx
Finally got the brakes and the VW steering damper connected and test drove today. The wobble is very little now - mostly when I hit a bump.

Still pulls right on acceleration and left on deacceleration ---- pulls right when rear brake/car brake is applied -- pulls left if front brake is applied, does so -so if both are applied.

Still jerks left right on most shifts -- get a smooth shift sometimes.

Turns are now better but still heavy and takes both hands and no shifting in the turn.

Straight line driving is good-- can do it with one hand on bar but front will wobble if I hit a bump.

Right curves feel ok but on left curves the entire front seems to "float"

Is this stuff normal?

Will spending the $1500 to install a rake triple tree really help?

any advice is welcomed ---- thanks
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timo482
Posted 2/20/2012 3:27 PM (#63210 - in reply to #63202)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 628
Location: Belle Plaine MN
with a sidecar that big id do a tree instantly - otherwise you will need gorilla arms

ymmv
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SwampFox
Posted 2/21/2012 12:09 AM (#63215 - in reply to #63202)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 1662
Location: Summer Grove, LA USA

Txart - 2/20/2012 12:44 AM

...  The wobble is very little now - mostly when I hit a bump....

Turns are now better but still heavy and takes both hands and no shifting in the turn.

Straight line driving is good-- can do it with one hand on bar but front will wobble if I hit a bump.

Right curves feel ok but on left curves the entire front seems to "float"

Is this stuff normal?
YES

Will spending the $1500 to install a rake triple tree really help?
YES

 Txart, I know we're comparing apples to oranges, but when I finally installed a sidecar-appropriate triple tree on my Sporster rig, the bump wobble went away -- now the whole rig "bounces straight."  Also, at 55mph there is no more oscillation on the bars -- no damper now needed.  As I understand, the bump wobble results from the reaction of the front wheel trail to the side forces on the frame.

 Sweeping left turns can be difficult on a rig -- that was what lead us to changing the trees on Jena's Burgman rig.  I reckon with your present steering geometry, a bump during a left curve will try to snatch the bars right out of your hands.  Our little rigs did this, particularly when loaded.

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Txart
Posted 2/21/2012 10:25 PM (#63251 - in reply to #63215)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 145
Location: Brazoria, tx
I am slowly warming up to the idea of spending one or two more Kilobucks on this rig -- been looking around and the trees are about a Kbuck + install , give or take ----------- Guess I'll stop eating for a few weeks and send the OL to stand on a street corner to make the $..... lol
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SidecarMike
Posted 2/22/2012 12:58 AM (#63252 - in reply to #63251)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 1710
Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin USA

If you're getting a shake when you hit a bump, I would be looking for a problem.  I'd start with steering head bearings.  Put a jack under the front of the bike's frame and raise it enough to take the weight off of the front forks.  Now sit on the bike and move the bars right or left.  If you feel a "catch" in the straight ahead position you need new bearings.  Now try pushing the handlebar forward and back.  Do you feel any play at all?  If so, try tightening the steering head a bit.

Some shake is normal on deceleration, but not just because you hit a bump.

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Driverswanted
Posted 5/8/2012 10:20 PM (#64692 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 17
Wow, I have to tell you that seeing pics of this rig have totally inspired me to put a CSC FSIII hack on my 2006 EG Classic. I found one a couple of days ago, and brought it home today! Mine appears to be an earlier model (Mid 80's), but I just love the look of it on your bike. In fact, your color even looks like a close match to my Brandy Wine Sunglo. Great job you've done! Looks terrific!
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Txart
Posted 5/9/2012 12:27 AM (#64694 - in reply to #64692)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 145
Location: Brazoria, tx
Hey - thanks for the compliments -- we like it too. We went to the East Texas Spring Sidecar Muster this past weekend and really loved it --- This was our first trip and I finally got somewhat comforable driving the rig -- we drove almost 500 miles round trip.

When you get it installed, your bike will no longer be a bike --- it will pull to the right on accerlation, pull left on de-accerlation, steering will be heavy and may have head shakes at slow speed and you will wonder what the hell have I done -- BUT don't worry, a rake triple tree will care of most problems - don't bother with the steering damper - it was a waste of money for me. Just ride and be scared of the machine while learning - it will come to you --- do take the riding class -- I hope to take a class soon!!!

I got my TT from Libery sidecars and a local shop made the install along with some heavier springs in the front forks. Total cost was some $1500

I still need a little work on the Ultra --- first is to lower the gearing since Ultra gearing is tall - another is to add a reverse-- do I really need it? No -- but it looks uncool as hell pushing the rig. I turned greeeeeen with envy every time I saw a Ural back up.

If you need advice, just get on this site and ask for it ---- you will get many answers - none will be the same but they will be honest. Its really a great group here!!!

Where are you at?
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Driverswanted
Posted 5/9/2012 1:18 AM (#64699 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 17
I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I plan on buying a raked TT kit either way, as I'm rolling on a 21" fat spoke wheel up front, and want to stretch out the look of the bike. I intend to have a quick mount setup, so I can go solo or with the car in a matter of a few minutes. I see that most folks here are rather helpful, which is a big plus. I have posted a thread about the mounting hardware, and am awaiting some insight on that. Do you know offhand what degree of rake your TT kit is?
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Txart
Posted 5/9/2012 8:36 AM (#64701 - in reply to #64699)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 145
Location: Brazoria, tx
I have a 5 degree Tree. All the ads I see do not recommand riding solo with the raked tree. You might want to talk to Liberty sidecar people as they deal with nothing but Harleys
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timo482
Posted 5/9/2012 8:58 AM (#64702 - in reply to #64699)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 628
Location: Belle Plaine MN
a quick mount setup is mostly not going to work

if its got the right trail for a sidecar - its way too little trail for solo, and vice versa

pre 84 hd made a tree that was adjustable - had two positions, one for sidecar and one for bike - could be changed in a few mins - then add or remove the tapered head light ring & away you go.

those trees are available repop, they can be adapted to a softail type frame, and may be able to be made to work on a dyna frame, but they wont work at all on a post 84 FL frame

hd used to advertise how fast you could remove and install a hd sidecar - 95 percent b*&^%t - removing it takes only a few mins, getting it on and aligned and bleed the brakes takes a couple hours - both ways you have to remove the seat. there is a roll over switch, etc. but the big deal is steering. if you fix the steering so with a sidecar its really right - it wont be right for a bike. so those who want to be able to remove it typically stick with bike steering and just live with the high handlebar effort required with the sidecar on the bike.

in the end the truth is its the same as installing a trike kit - but it carries more and rides smoother.

to
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Driverswanted
Posted 5/9/2012 9:41 AM (#64703 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 17
I do have a lager front wheel on the front of my Bagger. I was considering going to a 26, but for the amount of real riding I do, I'll stick with the 21". I'm looking at a setup from AdventureTrikes on ebay. $695 for a set. They are apparently made for either trike/hack setups or big wheeled baggers. I hope to figure out a quick connect/disconnect method, but realistically, the hack will probably be a permanent fixture.
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Hack'n
Posted 5/9/2012 2:04 PM (#64707 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 4833
Location: Boise, Idaho
With the 21" front wheel you have a slightly different total trail than a stock setup so your experience may be a little different than one with a stock harley front end. Since raked Trees seem to be available between 3 and 6 degrees the 6 may work better for you.

Lonnie
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Driverswanted
Posted 5/9/2012 10:26 PM (#64718 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 17
Txart, could I trouble you to post a couple of pictures of the mounting points on your frame. Did you get a subframe made up for the underside? I've been flipping through the Harley sidecar manual (Thanks to one of the members here!), and I see a couple of frame tie-ins to hold the two frame halves together. Those must be what Hack'n was referring to. Just curious if that's how they went about mounting your rig. Thanks, all help is greatly appreciated.
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timo482
Posted 5/9/2012 10:46 PM (#64719 - in reply to #64718)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 628
Location: Belle Plaine MN
the frame tie in under the trans is for the 09 and newer frames

because the new frames have a removable section to get the engine and trans out they have a reinforcement for the frame for sidecar use. [well thats the assumption hd wont talk]

the non hd sidecars [other than liberty who use a stronger than stock arrangement] that just clamp to the frame may or may not be dodgey on new bikes.

i have seen guys using hd mount parts and only install the right half of the mounts and they seem to work fine - i assume that hd uses the tie across the front of the frame so that if you hit a giant pothole it wont spring the frame.

hd also always said not to run a sidecar on a softail - but the front upper and lower mounts can be made to work and the rear mount is easy to make so many have done it.

as far as rake, and trail, you need to figure out what your actual trail IS with the wheel you want to use and then adjust until the trail is just a bit over 2 inches - as the tire gets larger and the front of the frame is raised the trail increases.

im also idly wondering about the tall skinny wheels? there is a LOT of side stress on the front end at times - going down the freeway is fine but the long sweepers are a lot of stress on the front end - you really do not want it to break.

to
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Driverswanted
Posted 5/10/2012 9:44 AM (#64727 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 17
Thanks Timo. Upon closer inspection of the manual after some much needed sleep, I do see that the lower frame tie is only applicable to the 09-> models. I guess most people don't bother with the front frame tie then? I'll stop in my local HD dealer to see if they sell the mount components individually, but I think I'll be calling upon DMC for the two frame specific pieces.

As far as the wheel goes, it's a 21x3, 52 3/8" spokes. I'm running a 120-70-21 Dunlop E3 tire. If it will feel unstable with the hack, I will definitely be going back to a stock 16" wheel. I don't want to put my kids in jeopardy over appearance.

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Hack'n
Posted 5/10/2012 11:53 AM (#64730 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block



Posts: 4833
Location: Boise, Idaho
I've found that narrow front tire will sideslip in hard turns. Not a big enough footprint for good lateral traction. This is not a problem with a solo bike since they bank in the turns and all the pressure is applied directly to the ground instead of sideways.
Being a 2-track vehicle, a rigid mounted sidecar rigs forces are the same as with an auto in the turns. The rig and riders are being pulled away from the turn. With minimal fromt tire traction the rig will not hold the turn line.

Lonnie
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timo482
Posted 5/10/2012 9:20 PM (#64738 - in reply to #64730)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 628
Location: Belle Plaine MN
im running a 500 r 16 radial car tire on the rear of my bike - 4000 miles last year - 4800 miles so far this year [work sch is different] and the tire shows almost no wear.

when i got it they claimed it needed a 4" rim, now they say it will mount to a 3" rim - i "think" it will fit the front, my front hd dunlop is wearing out pretty fast, at this rate it will be done by the 4th of july - im thinking of putting a radial on the front - but still unsure. any opinions???

im also thinking of going back to the stock rear wheel when it needs a new rear tire - the 4" x 16" that i have is a pita to check air, is 80 spoke, and is heavy. the stock 9 spoke cast is a super strong wheel.

in fact as i change out tires im thinking of working my way back to all cast spoke wheels

either way - to this thread - i DO sometimes find the front skidding on paint lines etc, especially in left hand turns, makes me nervous. id never run a smaller front tire - i would however think a narrow tire on the hack would be just fine.

to
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Driverswanted
Posted 5/10/2012 9:30 PM (#64739 - in reply to #60912)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 17
Timo, what kind of tire is the 500r16? The only tire I can come across on HDForums is the Austone taxi tire, which I plan on running out back at the bare minimum. If my 21 front doesn't feel right, I'll be trying the Austone up front as well.

On a side note, I did speak to Jay at DMC and will be ordering the mounts tomorrow. I was going to try making them up my self, but as everyone says, "why try to re-invent the wheel?". All my struts and sliders are sandblasted with fresh paint baked on and it's looking darn fine.

Is it necessary to remove the body off the frame to fit the car? I know it's going to be a whole lot easier, but am hoping to not have to disturb the body off the frame.
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timo482
Posted 5/10/2012 9:39 PM (#64740 - in reply to #64739)
Subject: Re: New kid on the block


Posts: 628
Location: Belle Plaine MN
coker excelsior 500r16 steel belted radial, ran it last summer and so far this summer [spring came two months early this year so lots of 2012 miles]

to
http://www.cokertire.com/brands/excelsior/500r16-excelsior-stahl-sp...

this one will "probably" fit in the 08 and earlier rear fender - its a bit taller

http://www.cokertire.com/brands/excelsior/550r16-excelsior-stahl-sp...

the one i got two years ago had a very slightly different description..

to
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